jenni (00:00.846)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (00:09.407)
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of After the Well. And today I have my friend Jenny Peters on here and I'm stupid excited to have Jenny on here. Um, I have been friends, gosh, we've been friends since 2010, 2011, first year Bethel. 2012. Yeah. So yeah, cause I started school year 2010, 11.
jenni (00:27.15)
2012.
jenni (00:31.044)
No, you're right, 2010.
Yep.
Melissa Lapin (00:35.451)
Um, been to Africa together. Um, that was fun. But if girlfriend, it was so challenging when you're going with a person who doesn't even know where Cameroon is. I was like, are you kidding me? Why are you on this plane? But anyway, that's another podcast.
jenni (00:37.895)
Yes.
jenni (00:41.358)
Challenging.
jenni (00:48.598)
Hahaha
jenni (00:54.806)
hahahaha
Melissa Lapin (00:57.131)
But one of the reasons I wanted to have you on here, Jenny, is A, first you can introduce yourself a little bit, but I love your heart for prayer and intercession. And just, I think I would like to kind of maybe talk a little bit about prayer and what that looks like and what it doesn't look like and you know, that kind of thing.
Let's let's use that as our jumping off point and see where God takes us but introduce yourself for us.
jenni (01:29.966)
My name is Jenny Peters and like Melissa said, we met at first year school of ministry at Bethel Atlanta. I'm a mom, I'm a wife, I have three adult children, shockingly enough. All adults, one yet new married, two still living with me.
Melissa Lapin (01:49.931)
Ha ha!
jenni (01:58.642)
My husband was in the military and we traveled all over and yeah.
Melissa Lapin (02:03.411)
I don't think I knew that I don't think I knew Nick was in the military.
jenni (02:06.922)
He was, he was. He did eight years in the military. So, army. And so like, as he was going, it's like every place that God took us. Well, he was in the military, but God was making our orders. I mean, literally every time he was on orders, his orders changed before we were able to get to where we were supposed to go every time without fail.
Melissa Lapin (02:10.811)
Okay. What branch?
Melissa Lapin (02:26.156)
You know? Yeah.
jenni (02:36.062)
we were redirected. And so that was kind of cool. And each time, I think.
Melissa Lapin (02:36.092)
Interesting.
jenni (02:42.75)
We went to a little more kingdom minded church each time, each move we made. So it was just a really long and cool progression to where he brought us. So we were in Alaska or Arizona and then Georgia for school and then Alaska. And when we got out of the military in Alaska, we stayed put.
Melissa Lapin (02:57.957)
Okay.
jenni (03:11.258)
and youth pastor there for a while. And that's where our connection with Bethel Reading came. And so when the grace to be in Alaska lifted, which it did very suddenly, and we were done there, we basically had a you can live anywhere you want as long as it's within an hour of a major airport. So that's how we ended up in Atlanta.
Melissa Lapin (03:16.35)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (03:34.939)
Okay.
jenni (03:39.463)
which in and of itself is a crazy story.
Melissa Lapin (03:39.57)
Okay.
Yeah, right. So backing up to the beginning, did you guys have because you talked about God in the military before that did you have faith did you grow up with faith and
jenni (03:57.002)
Yes, yes. So my dad, I grew up in a in a Baptist. My dad was a Baptist pastor. When I was probably four or five years old, he left the church. And I think I started walking to church when I was like 12. We lived, we had a little church on the corner. And, and it wasn't too long after that, that my dad found his way back to God.
Melissa Lapin (04:03.607)
Okay.
jenni (04:26.814)
just found rededicated his life and my family started going to church, but I was actually the first one to start going back. And it was, yeah, so Nick and I met in high school and we were just, you know, typical teenagers. Definitely I had a faith. I continued to go to church. He was, he was coming from a Methodist background. So I don't think that he, I'm
Melissa Lapin (04:33.533)
Okay.
jenni (04:54.634)
He had never, in the church he was in, he had never heard the gospel. And so I think it was my pastor who shared that with him and he got saved, I think when we were probably, probably his senior year. But I don't think either one of us really made a full on commitment to Christ until, I guess it was.
Melissa Lapin (05:00.16)
Wow.
jenni (05:24.942)
would have been probably 1992, May of 1992. And I mean, we had been engaged for quite a while at that point. He had communicated to me that he was going to get his PhD before we got married. And I was like, I'm out. So, but that was because we just, we weren't living the way that I knew that we needed to be living. And so, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (05:44.381)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (05:53.752)
So what, what was the draw like as a 12 year old you're like, I'm gonna walk myself to church y'all heathens can stay home, you know, what was it in your heart that drew you?
jenni (06:05.71)
Honestly, I had a friend that was doing the same thing. And so, and I can't say that I would ever step foot in that church again, personally. But it did, it did. And so that friend and I, she'd walk to my house and then we'd walk from there every Sunday. And I think her parents made her go and I just went. And yeah.
Melissa Lapin (06:08.693)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (06:13.96)
Yeah.
But it kept you connected to God. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (06:33.695)
Yeah, I have a thought just encouraging to us and the listeners that, you know, because you said you would never go there again. And there, that happens a lot, especially nowadays with everyone deconstructing their faith and walking away and church hurt, quote, church hurt. And just all the BS and the politics and all the things of church and people have just
written it off, but I think to some degree, to some degree, I think there's a lot of spiritual benefit to staying somewhere that you're not comfortable because then it challenges you to go, okay, God, why am I so uncomfortable? What else is there? What more is there? You know, it's kind of, it can be
jenni (07:16.823)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (07:28.487)
like that launching pad, you know, just because for me being at a place where
jenni (07:30.562)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (07:39.743)
being part of a church knowing that particular church is not where I get fed you know but being there to serve and to be a light to others
jenni (07:48.406)
Right, right.
jenni (07:55.723)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (07:56.467)
you know, and then like you said about Alaska, when the grace is gone, the grace is gone. Like, you just know, it's like, all right, God changed my heart or change the situation. He's like, okay, get out and we're like, okay, you know. But yeah, for those of you just questioning or just totally unhappy with where you are, but you still want to be connected to just a congregation, just a fellowship, a community, because when we go places, we should make friends. And so a lot
jenni (08:01.76)
Right.
jenni (08:08.087)
Yeah.
jenni (08:26.263)
Right.
Melissa Lapin (08:26.461)
us have friends at specific churches, but for whatever reason, the teaching is not okay, or the kids ministry isn't adequate for your family needs, and that kind of thing.
make a list and stop and have that conversation with Holy Spirit. It's like, okay, Holy Spirit, why am I discontent? Instead of just walking away and throwing your hands up and like, well, church sucks, I quit. Because that's what a lot of people do. You know, I would just challenge you guys to dig in, suffer through the suck, as I throw up my air quotes, and really have those hard conversations. Okay, God, what is it that I need?
jenni (08:51.99)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (09:11.411)
Okay, this is not satisfying me right now. Why? Is it me? Is it them? Is it a mixture of both? Because it can be a really great opportunity for growth. But as a society, as a whole, we're just too quick to walk away, you know?
jenni (09:25.77)
Right. And I think it's important to consider, like in this situation, it was the closest church to me. Just the denomination was not foreign to me. When I said I wouldn't go back, it's just not a church I would choose today. However, had that church not been there, there wouldn't have been the seeds that were needed for the next church and the next church. And the same is true.
Melissa Lapin (09:38.164)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (09:46.846)
Right.
jenni (09:49.846)
the entire time we were in the military, as God moved us from church to church, had I not been to the church in Arizona, I probably never would have stepped foot in the church in Augusta. And then I have no doubt in my mind, had I not been in Augusta, and it was a very short period of time, it was six months, I would never have stayed. In fact, I almost didn't stay at the church in...
in Alaska, but I literally heard the, I went and got a drink out of the water and he said, you're home. I heard it. It's clear. I mean, it wasn't audible, but I heard it so clear. And he had to tell me that because I had some belief systems. And at the time when we arrived, there was a, um, the pastor had just passed away. The church was hurting. The church was broken.
Melissa Lapin (10:21.451)
Hmm.
jenni (10:37.846)
And his wife was stepping in while they were looking for a pastor. And at the time in my life, I had just been in a place where I still believed it was not okay for women to be in the pulpit. Like that's how I was raised. That was how the other churches were probably not the one in Augusta.
Melissa Lapin (10:51.947)
Hmm.
jenni (11:00.458)
But I feel like, like in Augusta, I learned to hear God at a different capacity, that maybe had I not been through those progressions, so each place that you do go, you're gaining, you're gaining seeds. Even if you don't feel like you're gaining, you're gaining. There's seeds that are planted in each of the doors that God is opening, be it in your own heart or in your family or, or with relationships that he's.
Melissa Lapin (11:15.673)
Yeah.
jenni (11:28.514)
broadening your understanding of who he is and without those stair steps. I don't know, I just look back at each of those churches, probably most of them I probably wouldn't attend today. Couple of them I still would, but where would I be without him? I wouldn't have got where I was. It's like, I tell my kids all the time, I wouldn't change a thing about my relationship with my husband. So why? Because...
heavily made mistakes, we've made a ton of mistakes. But I wouldn't change those mistakes because those mistakes have developed me into who I am today. And I feel like how can we be any different with our relationship with the Lord? Are there seasons in which I wish I had been closer or drawn closer or not gotten angry or whatever with the Lord? I mean, I'm being real. I'm...
Melissa Lapin (12:05.737)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (12:19.507)
which is completely valid if y'all have to scream at the sky, you go right ahead, cuss, hit trees, God, why? You know, cause he already knows you're feeling that way, you might as well just get it over with. Ha ha ha.
jenni (12:26.126)
I'm sorry.
jenni (12:31.67)
Right. But I mean, it's just the same thing. Like I wouldn't my progression of faith, I wouldn't go back and change because it's created who I am today. I mean, I, I say that and it's easier said than actually believing in my own heart. Because there are things that I wish I could go back and say, gosh, you know, if I had of in fact, I was driving down the road the other day and we had listened to us, we had they had done a new song.
Melissa Lapin (12:48.732)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (13:01.086)
It's probably not new, but it was new to me. And the first few lines are, when did I stop believing in miracles? Something along those lines, I can't think of what it's called. You're not done with me yet, is what it's called. And I just put it on repeat in my, because we're coming out of a season of...
our faith being really, really challenged. Just with some of the things we've walked through with our kids being called heretics and idolaters and, you know, just really having our faith shaken by people who really didn't know us at all and never asked us what we believed, but instead told us what we believed. And there was no opportunity to have a conversation, but the hurt
Melissa Lapin (13:41.791)
Yeah.
jenni (13:50.866)
in my child and I remember telling, I remember the day that she encountered this family and I remember it's in my journal and it was, God protect her heart. If this isn't it, protect her heart because she can't handle another heartbreak. And this heartbreak was something so deep in all of us. It affected all five of us. Her most of all, probably Nick and I second to that.
Melissa Lapin (14:15.031)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (14:20.778)
But, and I was kind of driving down the road, listening to that and I was thinking, oh, I know exactly when that happened, when I stopped believing, when I started doubting, when I started, and I, you know, I was driving and I was listening to the song and I was worshiping and I was like, in spite of that, in spite of that, in spite of me being angry for a year and a half, not at any person in particular, it's safe.
God alone and processing, well, is that okay? You know, he knew, you know, I was disappointed. My heart was let down. And I was thinking to myself, God, if I had have been praying for my kids in that timeframe, the way I used to pray for my kids, but I wasn't because I was angry with you, where would they be now? Like...
Melissa Lapin (14:54.059)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (15:15.886)
how much better off would they be? And he immediately showed me my daughter's life. And she's at, she's attending a church right now where she's gotten into a New Testament class. She is growing by leaps and bounds and she knows what she believes and who she is in Christ now in a way that she didn't know. And I thought, gosh, if she hadn't walked through this.
she wouldn't be where she was, you know, she hadn't, she, it caused her, it shook her faith so to the core that she really didn't know what she believed for probably 18 months. And then she just started digging. And in spite of my refusal to, not refusal, but just not praying as much as I would have before that, he was there, he was there for her.
Melissa Lapin (15:47.639)
Yeah.
jenni (16:15.314)
and he has done a much better job than I ever could have. I mean, and he was just very quick to remind me, you know, he's faithful. He's not, it doesn't depend on what I am or am not doing and whether or not I have dealt with, you know, what in this case, I was extremely offended at God, not at people. This wasn't church, but it was just straight up.
Melissa Lapin (16:32.619)
to.
Melissa Lapin (16:41.547)
Yeah.
jenni (16:44.558)
I asked you to protect her and you didn't, you know, or at least I didn't think you did. But I can look back.
Melissa Lapin (16:47.466)
Nah.
And that's what it comes down to is like our perspective. And it's like, God, and you and I both know, because we just have just really good kingdom theology, you know, that God doesn't make things happen, but he sure will use something, you know? And that...
jenni (16:54.87)
Yes.
jenni (17:09.322)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (17:14.947)
Sometimes I don't know that we like especially as a mom or a parent, we want to save our kids from that. You know got to protect their you know, because that's like right now is our granddaughter. Oh, you know, Annalise. She is with us a lot and
jenni (17:21.422)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
jenni (17:29.058)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (17:35.787)
her whole life is very different than, you know? And so that's just my prayer for her is God just protect her little heart, protect her little heart because I know that I cannot force my will on, she's not my kid, you know? And even if she was my kid, there's still balance in that. They've still got to, if God's not a control freak, I shouldn't be either.
jenni (17:54.27)
Right. Mm-hmm. Right.
Right.
Melissa Lapin (18:04.583)
You know, and but man, there's nothing more fierce than a mama's heart. When we want the best for our kids and. But it is it's sitting back and watching. The beauty. Of God unfold in someone else's life. You sit back and go.
jenni (18:11.106)
Right?
jenni (18:27.627)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (18:30.655)
Okay, God, I'm sorry. I'm sorry I judged. I'm sorry I was angry. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry. You know, you do know what you're doing.
jenni (18:33.482)
Yeah, because...yep.
jenni (18:39.374)
Because as it is, she's happier, healthier, spiritually definitely healthier than she's been. And if I had have had my way, what I thought was best.
she'd probably be in an abusive marriage relationship. So it's... he knew. He knew. He does.
Melissa Lapin (18:58.739)
Yeah, he saves us from ourself all the time. It's like, oops, I missed that one, didn't I, God? He's like, yeah, but I got your back. Yeah.
jenni (19:07.218)
Yeah, yeah, yeah. So he's it's yeah, that's been my realization the last little bit of oh gosh, like
Melissa Lapin (19:20.543)
So in that, even being angry at God or you know just frustrated or whatever, because I get that way too, because I have promises. I have promises about my children.
jenni (19:33.997)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (19:37.067)
but ain't neither one of them fulfilling that promise yet. It's like, damn it, come on. Don't you know what God wants you to do? And they've got church hurt. They both have church hurt big time. They're blaming it on the church, even though it was just an individual. We all know that. But what were there, even in your anger and your emotions and your frustration,
jenni (19:40.943)
Hehehehehehehehehehe
jenni (19:46.316)
Right.
jenni (19:51.147)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (20:02.291)
Were there promises? Was there a promise? Was there a prophetic word? Was there something in your gut that just kept you anchored to, okay, God, this is a crap situation, but I love you anyway. I'm angry at you, but I love you anyway. Does that make sense?
jenni (20:14.826)
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I don't, yes, for sure. It's not, I don't think that at any point I walked away from him wholly. I mean, I was mad and I dealt with a lot of anger. Just, I mean, my journals are, well, they're probably sitting right here. I won't read them, yikes. But like there was a lot of venting and I think it was, wasn't until, I think it was Terry said to me, you know, it's okay.
Melissa Lapin (20:33.375)
Ha ha!
jenni (20:43.786)
It's okay for you to, and you need to forgive God for disappointing you. I was like, hold up, that messes with everything that I feel like feels right in me. What do you mean? And she was like, well, you had an expectation that wasn't met. You need to forgive that wasn't met. But it's not like he needs my forgiveness, but does that, I'm not really making sense.
Melissa Lapin (20:45.291)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (20:56.442)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (21:10.251)
You make absolute sense and I hear what you're saying and I hear what she's saying and I absolutely disagree with that. You know, like forgiving God for not meeting my... I'm like, God doesn't have to meet my expectations, you know? Yeah. So...
jenni (21:17.582)
NNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
jenni (21:24.242)
No, he doesn't. He doesn't. But at the same time, bringing myself to a point where I could say, okay, I'm more maybe more myself. Right, right. Bringing myself to
Melissa Lapin (21:33.695)
But shouldn't you forgive yourself? Yeah, and see, and that's the thing. I think I get, cause I've had several people say that to me, like when we did, when I did sozo training, like we trained other people and there was somebody that said in a session and I about lost my mind. She's like, well, forgive God for not doing that. I'm like, God's not requiring, you know? And it was like a...
jenni (21:57.578)
Right, no, it's more... it really is more of forgiving myself for... Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm. Right.
Melissa Lapin (22:01.255)
Yeah, for that expect for expectation. For the wrong expectation or a not so good expectation doesn't necessarily mean it's wrong.
jenni (22:11.662)
Well, and really, it really would be more of a...
jenni (22:19.618)
forgiving myself for not trusting, for putting him in a box. For saying, this is what it's going to take for you to protect her heart, which is what I did. I mean, I basically, it was get this dude out of her life before she can get attached to him. So her heart won't, that's how we protect her heart. Instead of really what he did was he allowed that situation to play out. And I mean,
Melissa Lapin (22:22.235)
Yeah. Exactly.
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (22:39.03)
Yeah.
jenni (22:48.114)
there was no God in a lot of what she went through, none. But she
Melissa Lapin (22:51.207)
Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (22:57.599)
But it made her stronger, yeah.
jenni (22:57.622)
but on the other side of her, that's what I was gonna say. You know, I think that I was seeing protect her heart. She's not strong enough when in reality.
She's the strongest person that I know. And I had no idea. And what a gift to be able to see that, that strength that I wouldn't have seen any other way. I don't know anybody who could, in my personal relationships, that could have walked through that and come out on the other side the way she has. It wasn't fun. It was ugly. It was not fun.
Melissa Lapin (23:16.86)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (23:33.479)
Yeah. Yeah, you shared a little bit and it was nasty. That was nasty. And we sort of kind of went through a little bit the same thing with our son and his now ex wife and their family who are high profile and tried to get him kicked out of school. I mean, like the crap they did. And we're like, and you do this in Jesus name? I mean, come on. You know, but
jenni (23:40.565)
It was.
jenni (23:58.53)
Right. Yeah. But yeah, so it's just a process really of... there was never a point, never... there were some quiet times when things were really bad, as years, literally years went by, and I was waiting for her healing and waiting for him. But also, I don't know that I was waiting for him as much as I was waiting for her to yield to him.
Melissa Lapin (24:03.284)
We care.
jenni (24:28.01)
you know, and I was viewing it as I was waiting for him to act on her behalf, when in reality, I think he was waiting for her to run to him. And the moment she turned her face to him, I mean, she just, she collided and it was instantaneous. I mean, the child, the person that I live with now is 180 degrees from the person I lived with a year ago. I mean, 180 degrees.
Melissa Lapin (24:28.318)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (24:36.638)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (24:40.895)
He's standing right there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (24:53.)
Yeah.
jenni (24:55.614)
And so I think we have a tendency to.
jenni (25:00.758)
take our hurt and attribute it to God and attribute it to his timing and everything. When in reality, he really wasn't the one that I was waiting on. I was waiting on her to figure out that he really was worth it, you know? That she was worth it, because that was definitely her self-esteem was shot.
Melissa Lapin (25:04.165)
Oh, sure we do.
Melissa Lapin (25:17.42)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
jenni (25:30.138)
And it took her realizing that she had value. And that value, that realization of her having value led him, led her right back into his arms and literally, I wish I could communicate. I left and went to Oregon for three months and came home to a different child. No, but it literally was that drastic. Maybe.
Melissa Lapin (25:34.849)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (25:50.495)
Yeah. And maybe God needed you to do that too. So, okay, Jenny, you need to get out of the way. But here, here's the blessing of living on the coast and having this gorgeous experience. Oh, my God, I hated you for three months because I'm like, why can't I, God, why can't you exile me to Oregon?
jenni (26:02.766)
Mm-hmm. Ha ha ha.
jenni (26:08.162)
Hahaha
jenni (26:13.486)
I'm sorry.
Melissa Lapin (26:16.375)
But no, but seriously though, yeah, I'm really happy for her. But that goes, you know, also circling back to being disgruntled with your church and not happy and just like when you sit with God, you learn to ask really good questions. You know, like
jenni (26:38.156)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (26:39.339)
God, what am I missing? Instead of a lot of people are just like, why God, why? And God's like, maybe you're asking the question, wrong question, because I wanna say why Jenny, why? Or why Melissa, why? And going, okay, God.
jenni (26:41.186)
Right. Yeah.
jenni (26:51.04)
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Melissa Lapin (27:01.135)
show me this situation through your eyes. Help me see and I know, I know, you know, like I said, we've gone to school together and I know you and I know that you do that too. But sometimes our even our emotions get in the way and we're just we just we get caught in that anger or depression or like that anxiety and that and it all comes down to trust. You know, we don't we don't trust God, we get angry, we don't trust God, we have this anxiety,
jenni (27:22.324)
For sure.
jenni (27:28.014)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (27:31.41)
that it's okay to ask God questions. People listening, understand that.
It's okay to ask questions. God is ready to answer. He's got all the answers to the questions. He will even tell you the questions to ask if you just say, God, what do you want me to know? What do I need to learn? What do I need to hear? How do I need to see this? Can you show me? Can I see this person through your eyes? Can I see this situation through your eyes? But we normally, that's just not our
jenni (27:50.158)
Great.
jenni (28:02.55)
Right.
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (28:07.225)
fixed. And then we get pissy when it's not fixed, or we get depressed when it's not fixed because we get let down because of all those expectations. So which is why it's so important to have emotional intelligence and to just be healthy emotionally, which a lot of church doesn't allow you to do because, oh, you're depressed, you just need to pray more or your faith you got to have stronger faith, you got to have stronger faith, be like, hmmm.
jenni (28:07.882)
Yeah.
jenni (28:22.446)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (28:34.711)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (28:37.385)
no, I just need somebody to talk to. You know, it's just nothing to do with faith. God didn't go anywhere. I still believe in God, but I am human being with human physiology and I need to process this out. You know, not just throw scripture at me or, you know, that kind of thing. And so yeah, that's my little rant. It's my podcast. I can rant if I want.
jenni (28:39.812)
Right.
Melissa Lapin (29:06.847)
That's funny. So where's your heart now? Are you still mad at God? Good!
jenni (29:10.278)
No, no. And I think I haven't, I haven't been for quite some time. I actually got over it before. I mean, before she ever started into counseling and that kind of stuff. So it just, I went through, I think it was about a year. And even in that point, even in that time, I don't think it really, I mean, it definitely affected my, my prayer life.
in that I mean, I still had quiet times and stuff. I just.
I would liken it to unresolved.
argument inside a marriage. You don't, it's gonna affect the intimacy. It's gonna affect the depth. And I don't feel like that's ever really on God. I mean, I really feel like that's on us. Like, what are we being, what was I offended by? I was offended that he didn't do what I wanted him to do.
Melissa Lapin (29:55.379)
Sure, sure. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (30:12.904)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (30:17.95)
essentially. And that's what I had to get over. I had to let that go and, and trust him. I mean, it really came down, like you said, to trust. It really does. Back when I was on an intercession team, I remember we were at Moravian Falls and God spoke to me so clearly. I was, I had three kids going 15 different directions every night.
in all of their activities. I spent six hours a day probably in the car running them here and there. Cause of course, none of them had driver's license. So that was handy. And I remember the Lord speaking to me and telling me so much of trust is rest. And so much of rest is trust because I found myself so, so tired, you know, and I was like, I just need to rest. And that was his response. It, I think it actually was flipped the other way. It was so much of rest is trust and so much of.
Melissa Lapin (30:53.264)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (31:01.776)
Mmm.
jenni (31:12.91)
trust is rest. Like you can't separate the two. You can't because you'll never fully rest without trust and you'll never trust without resting. Not fully. And so it really, it yeah, I mean, he gave me a big long thing about it. I just don't have that journal handy. Otherwise I'd probably share it. This, it was a really impactful and it's always really stuck.
Melissa Lapin (31:19.678)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (31:23.156)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (31:26.923)
That's good, that'll preach right there. That's good.
jenni (31:42.438)
stuck with me. And I just hit the season where I wasn't, I wasn't resting or trusting, resting in the knowledge that he knew better than I how to take care of my daughter or trusting the fact that you know this was not his doing. There were choices in it and that's the other thing I think. Sometimes we get so offended with the way the Lord works or the timing that he works in that we forget that maybe we should go back and ask the questions of
Melissa Lapin (31:48.566)
Yeah.
jenni (32:11.626)
Where's my responsibility in this? Because if I'm honest with myself, and my daughter would tell you the same thing, if she's honest with herself, just lost my hair.
Melissa Lapin (32:13.566)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (32:29.202)
now can you hear me? Sorry. If we're if I think what was I saying? Dog on it.
Melissa Lapin (32:30.715)
Mm-hmm. It's okay.
Melissa Lapin (32:40.308)
The responsibility, personal responsibility, if you're honest.
jenni (32:42.806)
Oh, I think if we're both honest with ourselves, and probably my husband too, there were some red flags that we all chose to ignore in the excitement of the moment, in the hope of something that, you know, we knew that she wanted so desperately.
Melissa Lapin (33:01.143)
Cause she actually got engaged, right? Yeah, yeah.
jenni (33:03.278)
She was engaged, yes. Yep, she was engaged very, very briefly. It lasted about three weeks before all the true colors came out. Actually, it wasn't even the true colors, being honest, it wasn't the true colors of the young man, more so his family. So, but yeah, I mean, I think it's really important when you find those points that you're frustrated with God or you're...
Melissa Lapin (33:12.627)
shit hit the fan. We can, what's an adult podcast? We can say that shit hit the fan.
Melissa Lapin (33:23.976)
Yeah.
jenni (33:32.33)
struggling with his timing that you go back and You know ask yourself some of the tough questions. What's my responsibility here? Even in a situation that I'm in now, it's Even in this there's a situation that I'm in now where I Was frustrated and what's my responsibility in this situation?
Melissa Lapin (33:50.573)
It's fine.
jenni (34:01.566)
And the truth of the matter is my responsibility in this situation and the place that I can also as a child can best help that child is on my knees. I'm going to be most effective in this situation by not sharing my opinion, by not forcing my opinion or my will or my way. But most effective in...
praying for peace, praying for unity, praying for joy, you know? And so I think that's where you just get to the point where you've got to figure out, okay, in this situation I have the choice to be super offended, but what's my responsibility here? It's not always going to be prayer. It might be healthy communication. It might be...
Melissa Lapin (34:33.011)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (34:52.819)
Yeah.
jenni (34:56.342)
confrontation. It might be you just have to figure out what is your responsibility in this situation.
Melissa Lapin (34:58.078)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (35:02.963)
Yeah. Yeah, and that's good, but we don't get those answers until we trust God enough to have that conversation, you know, and to sit and go, okay, God, this is how I'm feeling. What do you want me to do about it? What are you saying about this? You know, and, and because they're, God, and I've been, and I'm sure you've heard them too. I've been part of intercessor groups and prayer groups and prayed with friends for quote, the prodigal kids.
jenni (35:09.675)
Right, right.
jenni (35:19.327)
Right.
jenni (35:31.714)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (35:32.315)
And I'm like, everything that came out of your mouth was your desire for that child. You know, it's like, you never once asked God what he wanted, you know, and we do that we pray our will so often, God just bring them here and just let them take this job or let them have this relationship or, you know, all the things that we do. And it's just like, God's like, I don't want to, you know.
jenni (36:00.458)
Yeah, I think I appreciated that most about my mom. You know, we never lived close, and that was always very hard. And my mom would always tell me, I would rather have you in Alaska, 6,000 miles away, right in the center of God's will than right next door. You know?
Melissa Lapin (36:16.215)
Hmm. Yeah. Where'd she grow up? Oh, that's right. I think I remember. Yeah, that's right. And your mom just passed, didn't she? A year ago? Yeah. Sorry about that. I remember that. Oh, you're a good daughter. All the trips you took back and taking. You were gone a lot. Yeah.
jenni (36:21.581)
In Illinois.
jenni (36:26.806)
Yep, about a year, a little over a year ago.
jenni (36:37.202)
I did take a lash ropes bag, but that made it. I was bound and determined to have no regrets.
Melissa Lapin (36:44.771)
you know, sometimes we just gotta do what we gotta do. We have to lay aside our own comfort and just suck it up and embrace it and do what we need to do. Personal responsibility. You know, that's not something that people in this country are too keen on nowadays. I'm gonna cancel you. I didn't do anything, you know?
jenni (36:47.34)
Yep.
jenni (36:51.519)
Easy.
jenni (36:59.851)
Yeah.
jenni (37:05.674)
Not really.
jenni (37:09.343)
Yeah
Melissa Lapin (37:17.397)
So in that as we, big old cut on my finger, as we are winding down.
What's some advice or some encouragement around this whole subject of not even just parenting, but
being, you know, personal responsibility, emotions with God and, you know, prayer and walking through that. And I like that you did state that, you know, even though you were angry at God, you never stopped talking to Him. You know? So what would be some encouragement?
jenni (37:51.242)
Right.
jenni (37:55.642)
I feel like if I got to that point, I'd literally feel like I would die. Where would the hope be? I would have completely and totally lost all hope. And I knew that I could consciously have that conversation in my head that if I let this go, which was a temptation because there was so much pain involved.
Melissa Lapin (38:01.106)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's good.
Melissa Lapin (38:19.616)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (38:21.646)
I knew I would find myself without hope. It literally was where would I be?
Melissa Lapin (38:26.927)
Okay, so let me back up and ask a different question that in this, because, you know, we're talking about our well moments and things.
Melissa Lapin (38:42.952)
What is it about your conversations? Because like I've known you for a long time, and you've always been an intercessor and I freaking love the way you pray and I love the perspective you have and the things that you pray. Um,
Melissa Lapin (39:00.991)
What is it about your relationship with the Trinity, Father, Son, Holy Spirit, like with the Godhead? What is it about your relationship that keeps you?
like as a laid down lover, because that's how I see you. You've always been so humble. You've never taken intercession like, if I don't pray, the world's gonna crash tomorrow, you know, because there are those people like that. It's like, they think it's their, they take it as a militant duty that they have to do this, you know? Makes them a good Christian because they pray all this stuff. But I've never, I've never observed that with you. It's always been this,
I'm gonna go hang out with the guys, you know? It's just been a very natural thing for you. What is it about your time that just keeps you hungry for it?
jenni (39:48.576)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (40:03.982)
That's a really good question.
Melissa Lapin (40:06.687)
Thank you, thank you very much.
jenni (40:10.673)
I think, um...
jenni (40:15.566)
I would say probably...
jenni (40:20.07)
really for lack of a better way to say it as I remember what it was like when I didn't have him. And I don't want to go back there.
Melissa Lapin (40:28.061)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (40:31.371)
Mm.
jenni (40:31.742)
You know, I just... And that wasn't like... Like I didn't... I obviously, I grew up mostly in a Christian home. I watched a lot of things happen. And I don't know, maybe if I'm even being a little honest, I saw the decisions that my dad made when he walked away that changed the course of some of my siblings' lives. And...
jenni (41:03.326)
maybe it's even out of the fear of not wanting to have that. And I mean, I'm just being real. It's not super spiritual to say part of it is, I mean, I'd love to say it's because every time I meet with God, I have an encounter and every time, but that's just simply not true. I mean, I wish it was. I mean, I do encounter him every time in some way, shape or form, be it in the car or whatever, probably most often when I'm in the car, because that's when my...
Melissa Lapin (41:20.914)
Right.
jenni (41:30.61)
as long as nobody's with me. Because I don't tend to typically listen to music. So that's when I'm either having conversations with people in my family while I drive, or it's just quiet. And, or when I take a walk, you know, those are probably even more so this is my, this room, it used to be Caleb's room. It's now my whimsy room. I redecorated it. This is where I do my quiet time. And I call it my whimsy room. And
And God has met me here, but more often than not, it's when I'm on a walk or when I'm driving down the road or when I see something, you know, or encounter someone. And I just don't want to imagine my life without those. Even in the seasons of my life, when I feel like they're few and far between, the idea that...
Melissa Lapin (42:17.555)
Mm.
jenni (42:26.43)
I don't know. The idea to not have that in my life is.
It actually it's making me tear up because I would just I don't want to live there. I don't want to go there and Yeah, I just it's not a place I want to be and it's not so much that That I that I have these Super natural encounters with that all the time. It's just that I don't want I don't want a life without him I don't want to think about a life with no hope or a life
Melissa Lapin (42:57.302)
Yeah.
jenni (43:01.43)
that is completely, heaven forbid.
dependent on my choices because I've already demonstrated this conversation, how well I would do in that situation. So I don't know if that answers your question per se, but I don't know that it's necessarily like, it's just I don't wanna be without it. It's not so much that there's something that I feel like in particular about my relationship with him that draws me back. I just, I guess if I had to say one thing, it would be hope.
Melissa Lapin (43:11.419)
Hahaha
Melissa Lapin (43:15.951)
Ha ha.
jenni (43:36.898)
Like, I can't imagine my life without the hope of Christ in it.
Melissa Lapin (43:42.591)
Yeah. It's just like, when you're married and your relationship is good, like I can't imagine not being without Scott. Like you can't imagine not being without Nick, you know? And tell him to make his appointment because I want to interview him. So I know that's what he said. So he needs to freaking make this schedule it. I love him so much.
jenni (43:49.646)
Right.
jenni (43:56.674)
He was more nervous than I was during the meet. He was actually surprised. He was like, you made it? You made it? And I was like, I did. I did. And he was like, really? He was shocked.
Melissa Lapin (44:12.307)
That's funny. But it's like that. It's it's. Yeah. No, it's just like you just tell him it's okay. It's just a conversation. Nobody died. But um, but yeah, so I feel the same way. You know, I do not feel religious compulsion to pray.
jenni (44:14.454)
Cause it is super out of character for me.
jenni (44:22.042)
I will tell them.
jenni (44:39.169)
Night.
Melissa Lapin (44:39.631)
or to quote have a routine or whatever. I just enjoy knowing that I get the privilege and honor of hanging out with the Godhead. That that is my inheritance. That is my right as a daughter of God. You know, it doesn't have to.
jenni (44:50.862)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (44:56.705)
Right.
Melissa Lapin (44:59.711)
look like anything. Because like you most of my time was when I'm hiking when I'm a lot of times like yesterday I was in my studio and I had no music on no TV in the background because sometimes you I just want voice you know I'd want something so I listened to a lot of audiobooks or podcasts not necessarily TV or movies or whatever but just void just to have a voice and there's quite a few times though I just nothing it's just silence and
jenni (45:03.863)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (45:14.068)
Right.
jenni (45:22.062)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (45:29.745)
I'm just there and I'm creating and I'm thinking and sometimes like the cloud of witnesses have showed up and I have had encounters and I'm like okay I just felt somebody come in the room and stand behind me you know and then I just like okay who are you and just have that conversation fully legal it's not necromancy people you know it's all in the Bible if you're listening and you
jenni (45:46.606)
Hehehe
jenni (45:50.924)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (45:59.585)
weird now. It's completely legal and valid to interact with the cloud of witnesses. But um yeah just like you said like that hope like and the rest and the peace comes in that too because like I don't that people are just like you choose so much you know like I post stuff on Facebook or whatever but I'm not busy you know and I
jenni (46:26.431)
Bye.
Melissa Lapin (46:28.563)
But then I stop and I look and I'm like, crap, I did a lot this week. But it's because I live from a place of rest.
jenni (46:35.294)
Mmm. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (46:36.239)
you know, and I don't allow things in my schedule. I protect my time, you know? I can say no. And a lot of times I do, you know? There's four things that it has to line up with and if whatever comes up doesn't fall into one of those four categories, nope. You know? And that's, for someone who's fairly extroverted, that's been really hard, you know? But
jenni (46:40.322)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (47:03.406)
It's not hard for me, I'm in a droid.
Melissa Lapin (47:05.791)
Yeah, yeah, I'm a my introvert extrovert are less than 1% each from each other, which is like rare in itself. So I can be either or. But like there are times I'll go sit at a coffee shop just to be around people don't talk to me. And I hate coffee. I just go sit somewhere. I'll go to a restaurant. I'll just go to a restaurant and sit and put headphones in and watch a movie while I eat lunch. So I can be I want to talk to you.
jenni (47:12.281)
Really? Yeah, that is.
jenni (47:23.734)
name.
jenni (47:29.334)
so that you can be near other people.
I don't understand that life.
Melissa Lapin (47:38.292)
But yeah, and the same thing with... Yeah. Yeah, I don't do it all the time. Yeah, yeah. Not all people. Not all people all the time. Yeah, well, yeah. I don't know. I'll leave that one up to God. He and I can talk about it another time. I think that verse is translated wrong.
jenni (47:38.91)
I mean, I love people and I love being with people sometimes. No, I love people all the time. Well, I'm supposed to.
jenni (47:56.599)
laughs
jenni (48:05.5)
That's convenient.
Melissa Lapin (48:10.037)
What's that Old Testament? No, I'm just kidding. So circling back around to the question, get me off the hook here. What's some things, what's some advice, what's some encouragement you'd leave with people on how to find that rest and trust and yeah.
jenni (48:11.546)
I'm sorry.
jenni (48:32.522)
I think it's just finding those moments through the day. I mean, obviously, if you have the time, if you have the opportunity, having that, journaling does help quite a bit. And like I said, some of my journaling is, sometimes it's just my prayer over, be it my kids, my family, church, the nation, whatever. Sometimes my quiet time looks very much like a venting session sometimes, but just finding those moments and.
Melissa Lapin (48:43.933)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (49:01.758)
And maybe even in the midst of your day, shutting off the music, shutting off, you know, even worship music. For me, sometimes I even have to shut off the worship music just to have it quiet. We live in such a world that's so loud all the time. Yep, and finding those moments of just quiet.
Melissa Lapin (49:07.587)
Mm-mm.
Melissa Lapin (49:20.791)
Constant stimulation. Yeah
jenni (49:29.69)
to give God the opportunity to speak, I think would be key, and then learning to hear his voice. And that's a time thing. And even now, I mean, sometimes it's like, okay, is that my voice or is that your voice? And really testing that to see.
Melissa Lapin (49:33.194)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (49:51.264)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (49:57.622)
whether it is me or him. But I think that would be just putting yourself, positioning yourself, I guess, essentially positioning yourself in a place where you can hear, where you can rest, where you can learn to trust. And really, maybe one of the best ways to learn to trust is to be obedient. I love that word.
Melissa Lapin (50:23.099)
You're gonna say, nobody likes that word, they just turned it off. Like, here they go on a rant about obedience. On that note, bye Jenny.
jenni (50:26.285)
We're like, in, we're out.
jenni (50:31.754)
Because I feel like there's something God is asking me to do right now and I am not very keen on it. But I know the benefits that will be on the other side because in the past where he's asked me to be obedient, he's been faithful and it's always come out in my favor. And I think that type of thing develops trust in a way that maybe
other things cannot. Or stepping out in faith and saying, okay, this is beyond me. This is something I can't do. Whether it's giving more than what you think you can give or just believing like, okay, you know, there's been multiple times where Nick has lost his job or just the nature of the work that he does, you know, they get what they need.
Silicon Valley companies are great for that. They get what they need and they move on. But I remember in May when his position was strategically eliminated overnight. Looking at him, the initial shock was, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, oh my gosh, how are we gonna pay our bills, how are we gonna, I mean, he is the only income that we have. And so the initial...
Melissa Lapin (51:36.151)
Yeah.
jenni (51:59.746)
first 10 or 15 minutes, but I was with a friend when I found out and she grabbed my hands and we prayed and then it was just like, hmm, this isn't my responsibility. And I had to remind Nick immediately, this isn't your responsibility. We get this idea that it's my job as the man to provide, but really it's God's job to provide. And I think that we were able very quickly that time, because of other times of being obedient and resting in Him and trusting Him to come through.
Melissa Lapin (52:18.231)
Come on, yup.
jenni (52:30.406)
that it was in that season, for whatever reason, it was easy. It's not always. But in that moment, it was easy to look at each other and say, okay, God's got this. It's no big deal. And maybe, I don't know if it would have happened. I mean, he had a job in less than a week, so it wasn't like...
Melissa Lapin (52:36.276)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (52:50.859)
Don't tell his podcast. Let him tell the story.
jenni (52:55.426)
So I think it was just, it's just a matter of, yeah, I think sometimes obedience is a key. That's a very unpopular opinion.
Melissa Lapin (53:05.423)
I mean, because that's... And it is. And it is. Because we have... You have to trust before you can see that he's trustworthy. You know? And we don't like that. We don't like that. We don't like not having answers. Right. You know? We have to give people opportunity to fail. Because, you know?
jenni (53:16.682)
Right. Yep.
jenni (53:22.154)
But that's true in every relationship. It's true in every relationship.
Melissa Lapin (53:33.411)
And but with God, it's, he's never ever gonna fail. It might not look like what we think it's gonna, cause we have those expectations and stuff. But the more we trust him, the more times over and over and over again, you're just like, meh, God's got this, meh, God's got this. And I mean, yeah, it's a little unnerving cause you're like, there's no income.
jenni (53:38.125)
Right.
jenni (53:51.233)
Right.
jenni (53:58.794)
Thanks.
Melissa Lapin (54:01.555)
Will there be another pandemic right now? You know, we have an election year coming up. What's gonna happen? You know, all the questions. But even in that, there's, there's that hope, because you've been intentional to cultivate that. You know, and where there's hope, there's, there's trust, because you got to have something to hope in.
jenni (54:03.993)
Great.
jenni (54:08.267)
Right.
jenni (54:17.635)
Mm-hmm.
jenni (54:27.639)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (54:29.255)
you know, because that is the definition of hope the biblical definition is an actually an active word. And hope is actually a poor translation of the word. I did a word study on it once. But it's an action word that is like a I know something cool is going to happen basically, you know, versus hope because people are like, I hope so.
jenni (54:40.666)
Night.
Melissa Lapin (54:57.399)
That's not biblical hope. I'm not saying you didn't have it, you know what I'm saying, but people are like, they're always, I hope so, I hope so. But, well, my friend, I think that is gonna wrap it up. I think it's a good place to land. I appreciate you coming on.
jenni (55:00.73)
Right.
jenni (55:11.971)
Hey. Yeah.
jenni (55:17.09)
Thanks for having me. Thanks for asking.
Melissa Lapin (55:18.94)
Yeah, see, it wasn't so bad!
Melissa Lapin (55:24.299)
So.
I do want to say to all everybody listening, thank you if this is your first time. If this is not your first time listening to one of our episodes, thanks for coming back. And I would ask that either way that you guys rate us, like us, love us, share us on whatever platform you engaged with it. If you have any questions for me, information and links to me, email address will be in the show notes.
Yeah, I think that's it. So trust and rest and rest and trust. Thanks, Jenny.
jenni (56:04.866)
You're welcome. Thank you.
