Melissa Lapin (00:08.374)
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of After the Well. I am Melissa and I wanna thank you for being here today because today I have my friend Bethany Gasson here and she's hibernated inside in Juneau, Alaska, parked by a window like a cat, enjoying the rare sun that comes out this time of year, waiting on the snow that's supposed to happen. But Bethany and I met in a class through...
Bethany Gassan (00:28.656)
Thank you.
Melissa Lapin (00:36.618)
mutual acquaintances and you know, we've spent about a year just being real with each other in this online school that we took together, which is not SOK, which I know all y'all listeners are probably tired of hearing about my people from SOK. But she is a student, but I'm not sure that's where we met. I was pretty sure we met through Craig's class. Yeah. Which is another cool thing. So hi, Bethany.
Bethany Gassan (01:03.455)
Hello, so glad to be here.
Melissa Lapin (01:05.374)
Yeah, I'm glad you said yes for this. So tell us, just tell me a little bit about yourself. Tell us a little bit about yourself. Let's just start there. That's how we always jump off. Oh God, he scared me. My husband just walked past the window. Just scared the crap out of me. Don't do that, I'm recording.
Bethany Gassan (01:15.385)
Uh...
Bethany Gassan (01:22.8)
We're starting off with a scream, it's great. Ha ha!
Melissa Lapin (01:26.042)
Well, he's got this bright construction, don't hit me yellow shirt on and it was just like right across the window. So whoa. Yeah. Sorry for all you non YouTube people. You can't see that but dang. Okay, focus. Hi Bethany. How are you today?
Bethany Gassan (01:35.492)
Good morning, people. Ha ha.
Bethany Gassan (01:43.344)
Too funny.
Bethany Gassan (01:51.)
So I was born and raised in San Diego, California, and lived there for, let's see, 38 years, 37 years. And then moved here to beautiful Juneau, Alaska, which is a whole, you know, I could go into break into Disney songs because it's how God speaks, but you know.
Melissa Lapin (02:18.911)
It's a whole new world. It's all right. We allow singing on this podcast.
Bethany Gassan (02:19.344)
It's a whole new world. Ha ha ha.
Bethany Gassan (02:25.46)
I don't know if you want me to do that, but sure. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha.
Melissa Lapin (02:27.786)
You know what? Make a joyful noise, girl. Celebrate your goodness.
Bethany Gassan (02:33.86)
So this last October I've been here 15 years and it's been a, you know, it's funny because you could talk about enjoy the journey and I definitely live in a mountainous community. So the journey is, they always tell you it's not the top of the mountain, it's the sides of the mountain that make the journey. I can attest to that, let me tell you.
Melissa Lapin (02:55.348)
Hmm. Whoa, whoa, whoa. Stop there, say that again. It's not the top of the mountain.
Bethany Gassan (03:00.128)
It's not the top of the mountain that actually I think the saying goes, it's not the top of the mountain that makes a person, it's the sides of the mountain and the journey there.
Melissa Lapin (03:08.834)
Dang, that's so deep. I'd never heard that before. That's good stuff. All right, thank you ladies and gentlemen for joining us today on the podcast, Wisdom with Bethany. Ha ha ha.
Bethany Gassan (03:12.524)
Oh! Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (03:18.732)
Jump! Are you ready to jump 100 feet deep?
Melissa Lapin (03:21.678)
Let's do it!
Bethany Gassan (03:26.494)
I love it. So yeah, it's been a journey up here. So that's where I'm now.
Melissa Lapin (03:30.122)
What brought you there? What took you to Alaska?
Bethany Gassan (03:32.748)
Well, you know, life happens. Part of that life was a 21 year friendship that turned into marriage that moved me to Alaska and also part of the journey. And unfortunately that didn't work out. So I moved here two days after my wedding and we were divorced. Just, we were divorced.
Melissa Lapin (03:56.541)
Okay.
Bethany Gassan (04:01.316)
just under six years later. So it was a journey altogether, but it was, you know, I look back and though things didn't go as I planned, there were lots of things along the way that were, it took me a long time to see quite frankly, that were great things for me, that grew me, that were.
Melissa Lapin (04:12.579)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (04:27.424)
amazing. Again, the sides of the mountain, not the top, right? It's not the end journey, not the end destination at that point. So, it took me a long time to be grateful to be here. It was definitely, as I laugh, you know, I say a whole new world, I really meant a far cry from sunny San Diego, but I've learned to love where I'm at in many regards. I still like my visits home because I need my son or I need to go someplace sunny.
Melissa Lapin (04:32.021)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (04:43.883)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (04:53.79)
right.
Bethany Gassan (04:56.152)
The Sunshine Girl has never left California for that part.
Melissa Lapin (04:59.986)
Yeah, I hear you, man. I'm a Florida girl and dang, I've gotta have heat and sun. Like I will sit in my sun porch in front of a window, one, okay, Jesus, a little bit hotter, a little bit hotter, you know, especially in the winter time. Oh man, yeah, Georgia can get cold. Yeah, yeah. Let's do it.
Bethany Gassan (05:07.838)
Yes!
Bethany Gassan (05:16.524)
I'm coming to join you. That and if you're at a beach, then I'm all done. Right? At a beach. And I'm now we're, we've hit heaven.
Melissa Lapin (05:27.89)
It is, it is heaven on earth right here, you know, but I still like the mountains. I could also do sunny mountains. So.
Bethany Gassan (05:32.166)
I do, I do love them. I do love them. In fact, I can look them out my window. So for that, I am, it's an amazing, especially when we pass this time of rain and we hit to the snowfall where it's just like majestic outside the windows and you're watching it hit the mountains and the trees. And so I do love Christmas time here. It's one of my favorite times of year, which we're coming up to.
Melissa Lapin (05:46.466)
Mm.
Bethany Gassan (05:58.944)
Just because it feels like that beautiful, like you've gone driven to the mountains. Like, you know, most Californians have to go drive to the mountains. I literally just get to look, go get a cup of coffee and sit on my stairs and watch out my window. So for that, I'm spoiled. Ha ha ha.
Melissa Lapin (06:05.622)
bright.
Melissa Lapin (06:13.01)
So jelly. Suffer for Jesus, go ahead. Ha ha ha.
Bethany Gassan (06:20.604)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (06:22.574)
So let's back up a little bit then. What was your faith upbringing?
Bethany Gassan (06:31.376)
So I was, I started off the first four years of my life as Southern Baptist, and then my mom became a Jehovah's Witness. My dad did not. And I think my dad even still to this day is probably agnostic, but he didn't even figure out that he was agnostic till he came to actually Juneau. So we brought him up for a 70th birthday.
Melissa Lapin (06:55.778)
Hmm.
Bethany Gassan (06:58.22)
So I don't think he really believed anything existed, but my mom became a hardcore, and I say this, it's not meant to be, you know, disrespecting, but no, no shade, just my walk, my experience, right? Is over the years, I finally realized in meeting a ton of other Jehovah's Witnesses along the path.
Melissa Lapin (07:07.53)
We're not throwing shade. It just is what it is. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (07:23.588)
that we were raised in a district and they literally call them districts. In a district that would.
very similarly look like a cult. So right wing, whatever you want to call it, I don't care. Whatever analogy you want to put it towards, very, very strict. They didn't do compounds.
Melissa Lapin (07:47.986)
Interesting. I didn't, yeah, I didn't realize. So it'd be like Southern, like Baptist. You have Southern Baptist, Fundamental Baptist, Primitive Baptist, like all the different sex within and that there are different types of, of the laws and the legalism and the rules and interesting.
Bethany Gassan (07:59.512)
Very, yes.
Bethany Gassan (08:07.628)
And I never realized that until much later in life, again, as I started meeting other people and realizing the district that we were in was hard religion, hardcore strict. Everything was rules. And so there went from little freedom to even no freedom whatsoever as a young child. And then my parents divorced.
Melissa Lapin (08:21.462)
Hmm, okay.
Bethany Gassan (08:35.916)
And a few years later, my mom remarried to a Jehovah's Witness. And so that's how we were raised. And it was a tough, there were so many things in my life that wasn't just the religion that played a part in some tough upbringing, but that was definitely a major piece.
Melissa Lapin (08:56.318)
So where as like how old were you when okay so I asked a question then we'll back up maybe. So how old were you when you like had your well moment when you Bethany had your well moment with Jesus and you're like oh you know me you know.
Bethany Gassan (09:24.424)
Well, so I laugh. I mean, I what if I tell a my story, my joke line that comes right afterwards is I came for the first five years with concrete boots, meaning I barely moved, I moved in inch stage because of where I came out of. So I left home at 13. And I say I left home, I went to go live with my real dad and my stepmom. Longer story, I wasn't wanted there, but they
Melissa Lapin (09:38.751)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (09:43.839)
Sure, sure.
Okay.
Bethany Gassan (09:53.188)
took me in, they put a roof over my head, but I supported myself starting at age 13. So I was disassociated, so thrown out of the Jehovah's Witness Church publicly, which meant came with a whole side of that family of not talking and those great things. So my step-grandmother, who was the best thing for me at the time, she was highly, I think she believed in not quite new age, but very agnostic.
Melissa Lapin (09:57.771)
Wow.
Melissa Lapin (10:04.524)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (10:09.431)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (10:21.5)
spirituality and connection with that. And so she was able to find a place for peace for me to land at 13 at least. So that's where I stayed up until I was about 28. And then I had a friend who gave me a Bible and I thought, I'm not sure why you did this. Because she like went to church twice a year, but she felt I needed the Bible. Later I look back, I knew what God was doing. And quite frankly,
Melissa Lapin (10:33.268)
Okay.
Bethany Gassan (10:51.336)
I had to have a few encounters before I had an encounter. And so mine didn't come with just one. I literally was concrete boots. So my first one is, it's not a story that, again, not born shade, but the church doesn't like me to tell this story. But it's my testimony, it's my-
Melissa Lapin (10:55.822)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (11:02.272)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (11:11.355)
And religion doesn't. Right, right. Religion doesn't like to be exposed. You know?
Bethany Gassan (11:18.048)
No, so I was having a, the boyfriend at the time had showed up on my doorstep and literally was supposed to pick me up for a date and said, I can't do this and turned around and walked back off with no explanation. And I didn't know what to do with that. And so I was in a very vulnerable place already in my life. And that for the first time in my life, it took me over the edge. Miss, I can handle anything. I take care of myself.
I hit the world with tenacity and you can't break me and you can't get me down. I broke and within about two weeks I had cried every night I got home from work and this on a weekend I began to scream like bloody murder scream out of my apartment. I'm so glad that no one called the cops on me and thought I was... God protected the walls! Literally! For hours!
Melissa Lapin (12:13.996)
Ha ha!
Bethany Gassan (12:16.928)
I was screaming and crying and I, oh, I was done. I had been, I hit my done wall with life. So life and I had an intersection and I began to scream at a God that I didn't believe in. And I screamed at him for hours, hours. I called him every cuss word. I told him everything he had done wrong in the world, in my life.
Melissa Lapin (12:19.426)
Just cause you were angry, I guess, eh? Yeah, just mad. Yeah.
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (12:45.06)
how horrible he was, how wretched he was, how, I mean, I went for hours, hours. And it's the only time I've ever heard an audible voice. So I will say, if I say I hear, this is the only time I heard an audible voice. And I will tell you, I did have a moment where I thought, I did have a logic moment that said someone should go put me in a straight jacket, I might be losing my life. Right, like, what just happened? But I didn't let that stop me. So he interrupted me the first time and he said,
Melissa Lapin (12:50.894)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (12:54.178)
Wow.
Bethany Gassan (13:15.288)
Um, if, um, he said, why are you willing to blame your problems on me if you don't even believe in me?
Melissa Lapin (13:25.134)
Oh snap, okay God. Ha ha ha. He called your shit.
Bethany Gassan (13:26.856)
Yet we had a no snap moment. And I literally, you know, like the little kid that has big crocodile tears and you go.
Melissa Lapin (13:35.362)
and then you got caught. Well, the same thing happened to the woman at the well, because Jesus is like, why don't you go get your husband? And she's like, damn, okay, so you know me. You know?
Bethany Gassan (13:36.099)
Yes.
Bethany Gassan (13:47.706)
Right, ooh, how you know what I believe?
Melissa Lapin (13:51.882)
Right? It's like, ah.
Bethany Gassan (13:55.224)
What are you talking about?
Melissa Lapin (13:56.154)
It's obvious you're a prophet. Okay.
Bethany Gassan (14:00.4)
Thanks. So I didn't let that stop me. I stopped for about five minutes, reconsidered that I was losing my mind and that wasn't him. And I kept going. And about an hour later, no joke, I mean, I was, as we say, I was hell-bent. And so he said, I'm gonna ask you one more time. Why are you willing to blame your problems on me if you don't even believe in me?
Melissa Lapin (14:28.899)
Hmm.
Bethany Gassan (14:30.1)
And I stopped and I remember looking up and I yelled back at him and I said, well, I guess I need to consider what I believe, but I'm not going to church. Like,
Melissa Lapin (14:41.202)
And he probably said, did I say anything about church?
Bethany Gassan (14:45.068)
Nope, he didn't speak another word. He was gonna let me have my moment, that was it. So that started a walk that took about five years total. And then for me, I mean, I had some, I look back, and I mean, I've been able to honor these along the way, but some of the moments and the people that he put in my life were just, I'm thinking would I do that for someone?
One of them was I lived with this guy rented a room from this gal She they took me in when I was a rack after this because then we got that gentleman that left me on the doorstep came back
Melissa Lapin (15:27.222)
So how old were you in this? What's timeframe here?
Bethany Gassan (15:29.968)
about 27, 28. And then.
Melissa Lapin (15:34.342)
Oh, okay, okay. So up until this time, you were just living life like whatever, like God, not hating God, but just God wasn't an option or on your radar or whatever. Okay, okay.
Bethany Gassan (15:40.034)
Oh, I was.
Bethany Gassan (15:45.052)
No, not at all. Zero. I built a friend network that was about 30 people. We played hard, worked hard, party hard. I mean, that was our life. And yeah, no, there was none of, I was just.
I was enjoying what I thought life could look like, the things, the do-do's, and then building friendships, but I was huge on my connectedness to friendship since I didn't have a strong family tie. I mean, I did, but it was so vile. It was rough. And so, yeah, there was none of that. And then a friend took me in. She took me to her church once, and I was like, oh, hell to the no.
Melissa Lapin (16:18.562)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (16:21.78)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (16:35.628)
Like, if this is what you wanted me to come for, you've lost your mind. Like, this is just another round of that. Nope. So I very tried to politely say, hey, you know, I don't wanna go back. She's like, why? And I said, because here's all the reasons why. And I said, I'm not coming to be fake. And I said, I refuse to be fake. And one of the conversations that the Lord and I had,
Melissa Lapin (16:40.311)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (16:45.482)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (17:04.712)
was fine I'll have a relationship with you but if you ever ask me or tell me that I have to put on a fake face and I have to talk to you in a certain way and I have to do this and the list, I ain't coming. So if I can't be real, I ain't playing. I mean I laugh at what Dubb says for his two roles and I'm like I got one of those that's mine like I'm not and mine is either real and raw.
Melissa Lapin (17:21.536)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (17:25.498)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (17:30.104)
When I'm hurting, we can talk and I can be as real as possible and you are not offended. And I have really found that he's not and it's great. And so this wasn't the church for me. At the time she said, you find a church, I'll pick up my entire family and I'll move.
Melissa Lapin (17:36.523)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (17:45.44)
And she moved churches for me. And so I found a church, we were there. I was teaching, I don't know how this church, I mean, by the grace of God, we look back, right? The grace of life, like, how did you even do this? They made me do a background check to teach kids to do Sunday school, but never asked me if I was saved or what my beliefs were. So I was unsaved teaching little kids.
Melissa Lapin (17:45.58)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (17:55.459)
No.
Melissa Lapin (18:02.562)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (18:10.874)
Well, we went to a church for years and my husband and I were youth deacons. So we worked in the senior high youth group. I went there for three years and never attended an adult service. And no one ever asked me about it. Of course I'm bad ass and I was good. And you know, my life was to get, you know, just doing the best I could. It wasn't like I was taking him out drinking or anything.
Bethany Gassan (18:19.256)
Yep.
Bethany Gassan (18:28.42)
Yeah!
Melissa Lapin (18:40.63)
But yeah, no one ever questioned who, I mean, again, background checks, you know, as long as you're not a pedophile and an alcoholic who gets DUIs every other weekend, we're good. Like, oh, and people think there's nothing wrong with the church.
Bethany Gassan (18:41.816)
Yeah? No.
Bethany Gassan (18:51.957)
We figure you're good. Right.
Bethany Gassan (18:58.04)
And so, I mean, I laugh looking back, right? But it was actually cool because there was this little boy who I adored in the classroom, right? He was about five or six. And he kept telling me, my daddy's gonna come today and then he wouldn't come, right? So dad wouldn't come to church. Mom brought him to church. So dad came in and dropped him off once. And I looked in, he said, you have made a profound impact on my son so much so that I'm here.
Melissa Lapin (19:01.31)
It's scary!
Melissa Lapin (19:26.852)
Awwww
Bethany Gassan (19:28.096)
And so it was like, what are you doing? And here's the girl who does not cry. We do not cry. There is no, and so I started working on the crying stuff and I'm like, we're not crying, we're not crying. So I have little, ah!
Melissa Lapin (19:39.406)
Mwah!
Wow, okay, stop. No, no, you can't, you can't pass that one. All right. So process that with me. How did that make you feel? What were the conversations, or did you have conversations with Jesus around that encounter with that man?
Bethany Gassan (20:00.3)
I wasn't talking to Jesus. I mean, I was, but I wasn't.
Melissa Lapin (20:02.818)
Okay.
Okay, to heavens, what conversation with the Trinity?
Bethany Gassan (20:07.508)
Yeah, I was, yeah, it was, I still thought at that time we were having one way conversations. So I would say things, feel things, and even say, I see you, but I still was not ready. Again, concrete boots, right? I was coming at slow. So he was depositing.
Melissa Lapin (20:15.431)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (20:27.246)
Right. So you weren't ready to you weren't ready to receive from him? Because you were obviously ready to talk. Okay, did you ever Okay, this is a thought process track with me here. That little boy came to your class, like, for a long time or whatever. Did you ever see him after that? Were they part of like?
Bethany Gassan (20:34.286)
No!
Bethany Gassan (20:39.872)
Yeah?
Bethany Gassan (20:51.009)
I was, but I left the church not long after.
Melissa Lapin (20:53.63)
So do you think they were real people or do you think the guy was an angel sent just to tell you? That's what I, I was like, that man was an angel. I like literally just felt that in my core. That that was literally just to set up. Like that little boy like doesn't even exist.
Bethany Gassan (20:57.86)
I don't know. I've never thought about that, Melissa. I have never thought about that.
Bethany Gassan (21:06.34)
Wow. Whoa.
Bethany Gassan (21:14.84)
That was, you know, he was so different than the rest of the kids too. He stood out. He came in a little bow tie every single day, like every single Sunday. It was cute. He was so cute. I just remember him out of all the kids I remember him. And because obviously having, so we left and I had a gap and then I was still in the bars. I mean, excuse me. So my big thing was when I quit,
Melissa Lapin (21:23.79)
That sounds like an angel!
Melissa Lapin (21:31.661)
Wow.
Bethany Gassan (21:44.516)
going to the dance bar all the time. I started singing karaoke four nights a week and started doing competitions.
Melissa Lapin (21:51.564)
That's cool, something I didn't know.
Bethany Gassan (21:54.06)
And then that meant I was pretty toasted at least three of those nights, right? So in that time of my life, and then found this little church next, literally like four or five blocks from home, went. And then one Sunday, not long after I'd been there, they said, hey, we need help. Here's all the places we need help. If you need to be on the, you know, worship team on the band. It was a band.
Melissa Lapin (21:59.457)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (22:19.392)
And I thought that was cool, because I was like, oh my God, there's a band. This is awesome. I love a band, right? And so I remember being poked, and now I understand it was a Holy Spirit poke, right? It's that, hey, then did I know that was poking? I just knew that, like, I'm supposed to, right? Like, I'm supposed to, and I've never done this before.
Melissa Lapin (22:23.468)
Ha ha!
Bethany Gassan (22:45.9)
And I thought, well, we've got a couple of scenes. That's the kind of thoughts I have, right? So I didn't know that they were Holy Spirit and I having a dialogue at the time was like, well, I think it'd be kind of cool to be up there singing. Like, maybe I could do that. And so I went up and said, hey, you know, I've never sang in a band. I have no clue what I'm doing. He goes, well, do you sing? And I said, well, yeah, I sing at karaoke like four nights a week.
And I just started doing, you know, got invited to competitions and he said, well, try out through this. I think it was like that the following week on a Thursday night. And he said, come. And they were preparing for Christmas services. And so I don't know any Christmas songs. I was JoBeth's witness. I failed to tell them that.
Melissa Lapin (23:32.922)
Oh, okay. By the way.
Bethany Gassan (23:37.508)
way I'm getting there and he's like do you not know the words and I'm like I was raised Jehovah's Witness I don't know any he's like just from hearing like I've never really listened the words he's like okay so we had a quick learning lesson but before that they were gonna do a special and it was this song and there was a part for everybody that was doing as like backup singers to have a solo
And so I was like, oh my goodness gracious, what if like, you know, I started in with the whole performance and here I am. And again, all new to this process, I have no clue. I'm used to churches being very judgmental. And I start singing and a whole bunch of people said, where have you been? You're on. And I was like, okay. So it started another journey. And in that process,
Melissa Lapin (24:26.2)
Ha ha
Bethany Gassan (24:33.672)
not long after Twin Towers fell. And the day the Twin Towers fell, I actually went and gave my life to Jesus. So people talk about, you know, well, you came out of fear. I'm like, God will use wherever you are at. And it does happen. Yep. I went and gave my life to Christ. And...
Melissa Lapin (24:42.414)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (24:48.686)
Whatever he needs, yeah, wherever we are. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (25:00.3)
And I should back up. Right before all of that, there was a big, I had cancer. And so before I gave my life to Christ, and I was still in that space, right? I was like, what are we doing? What is this? I don't know what this is. I don't like what I see. This feels slightly familiar and I don't like it, right? And so the day I found out I had cancer,
Melissa Lapin (25:07.563)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (25:24.322)
Hmm.
Bethany Gassan (25:29.944)
sequestered myself in my room, the house I was living in. And I said, all right, God, I've never given you anything.
But obviously, I feel like this is big enough to give you. That was my mindset, right? I had something big enough to give you. And so here, I'm gonna give you this. And it took me about two days, and I came out with now what I understand is peace, but I didn't understand it then. I just knew that I knew I was gonna be okay. And so...
Melissa Lapin (25:47.458)
Wow, okay.
Melissa Lapin (25:53.154)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (26:05.454)
Hmm. So do you think so you what I'm hearing is you did that because it was something that Bethany couldn't handle. So yeah. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (26:13.572)
Yeah, it was something I couldn't control for like, I can't control, I can't handle and I don't know what to do with this. So I'm gonna do that. And then I was a volunteer firefighter in EMT at the time, huge fires broke out. I canceled, or I, when you got on a fire line on a strike team, you had to give them 30 days. You had to be a commit to 30 days, which meant missing my appointment to cut out the cancer. And...
Melissa Lapin (26:35.939)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (26:39.874)
Hmm. Okay.
Bethany Gassan (26:40.776)
My engineer, one of my engineers and captains knew that I had this appointment. And they looked at me and said, you can't, I'm like, don't you question communities big over this. And it was because I had that piece coming out of that weekend sitting in my room that was like, I don't care. It's going to be fine. And it had, yeah. And it was, I did progress. It did advance quite quickly in those time that I was doing.
Melissa Lapin (26:55.666)
So good. Peace that passes understanding, man. That's so good.
Bethany Gassan (27:09.412)
but I came out with clean margins, never had to do anything after we were done. And it was like, okay. So there was these, again, along those five years, there were these moments. And even that didn't have me go in and give my life to Christ. It was still just a, okay. It was like almost the, I'm testing if you're real. I'm seeing how, I laugh.
Melissa Lapin (27:18.69)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (27:37.746)
That's hilarious. It's, that's so funny.
Bethany Gassan (27:38.396)
I can't, I can't, I can't get those, get it off. So I can't, you know, it was that process of, are you real? I've never seen you, I mean, Job was one that just don't believe in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit. And so none of that was permitted. So we talked to what I thought was like a dead God. That's what it felt like. And so there was nothing. And yet my mom tells stories, which she won't admit what they were.
Melissa Lapin (28:00.258)
Uh huh.
Melissa Lapin (28:07.238)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (28:07.616)
of me having these, oh, you always did this, and always, you always do that, and oh, you had an imaginary friend. Well, I look back and I'm like, pretty sure I hung out with angels as a child. Yeah, oh yeah. And I believe she said one of them was named Fred, which I laughed, right? I was like, this is hysterical. So, there was, I think, always a presence in my life, just not an understanding.
Melissa Lapin (28:16.014)
Uh huh. Angels and Holy Spirit, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (28:35.84)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (28:35.924)
and then coming out of where I'd been. So yeah, you fast forward through and there's this journey of like hot pockets, right? There was these hot spots where, and it's like, all right, I see you. Now we'll take the next step until there was a moment where it was like, I know that I can't go through, even if it was based out of fear, it doesn't matter. He's worked me out of that since then, but we started somewhere and then the journey began.
It's the sides of the mountain that made the journey and I'm still on it and I love it. So.
Melissa Lapin (29:05.326)
Mm. Yeah. And I think that's that, you know, as I'm listening to you tell your story. I think a lot of people have a similar story in regards to Jesus being a gentleman, and he's just not going to invade our space. And so he knew how
Bethany Gassan (29:32.314)
Trail.
Melissa Lapin (29:36.25)
self-protected that you were because of your childhood and the religion and the cult of Jehovah Witness and all the things and going through the rejection because you know when you're not whether it's Seventh-day Adventists or the Jehovah's or the Mormons, bro when you're not part of their church anymore like they will literally write you dead in their books like you
Bethany Gassan (29:38.893)
Oh. Yep.
Bethany Gassan (30:04.834)
Yeah?
Melissa Lapin (30:05.474)
To them, you're dead. That's like serious rejection, especially for someone of your age, when you were younger and you're just like, okay. But Jesus does that. He's such a gentleman. He, the whole time I'm envisioning, and maybe this is just prophetic for you, but I'm sitting here and this movie is playing out in my head like,
almost the opposite of you know like ps i love you have you seen that movie ps i love you oh my god
Bethany Gassan (30:44.656)
I'm gonna go get some more.
Melissa Lapin (30:45.422)
It's so, so good. It's, oh crap. Oh, the Scottish guy did Phantom of the Opera and it all just left me in, hey, why don't I just use my like really smart phone right here? Look it up real quick. PS, Hillary Swank and Gerard Butler.
Bethany Gassan (30:57.294)
find it.
Bethany Gassan (31:06.837)
Oh!
Melissa Lapin (31:08.13)
Dude, okay. It's not really a spoiler alert, but he died, okay? And then the whole movie is every so often she gets a letter from him. And he is walking her through the... Can you try again? Siri, I didn't say Siri. What is happening today? So many distractions. My watch started talking. I'm like, what?
But he himself, after he's dead, starts walking her through the grieving process of getting over him. You gotta watch it, girl, it's so good. Kind of a sported a little bit, but I mean, after the first 10 minutes, you understand what's happening. But I saw that unfold like in reverse with you, that all of these little moments were...
Bethany Gassan (31:46.704)
Oh, it's so-
Bethany Gassan (31:50.752)
That sounds great.
Bethany Gassan (31:56.568)
Got it.
Melissa Lapin (32:08.606)
like little love letters that say, PS, I love you. Like, I know you're a badass and you don't really wanna do this. And you know, your little concrete boot only moved two inches and that's okay, PS, I love you, you know?
Bethany Gassan (32:12.693)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (32:24.693)
And yet I realized later that every two inches have been celebrated.
Melissa Lapin (32:29.694)
Yes! And that's the thing we don't realize too. Yeah, we think it's these... and it really is the church's fault and actually our western culture, our american culture, we want bigger, better, faster, shinier, louder, all the things. We want ticker tape, parade, all the things. Every time we like go to the bathroom, we want celebration, you know? And, but...
Bethany Gassan (32:31.468)
And we forget that.
Bethany Gassan (32:49.792)
Audit hates.
Bethany Gassan (32:55.256)
Yeah. Yup.
Melissa Lapin (32:59.106)
for a lot of us and the majority of us, I mean, I know of a handful of people who have ever had audible encounters with God. You know, you got to have, well, you had one, just one, but you had one. Yeah. I had, I've had, I had one. I know that I heard his voice. I know that I did. But also in that people think because they don't,
Bethany Gassan (33:15.344)
Peace.
Oh yeah?
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (33:28.514)
They don't hear God's voice, you know? And so I think it's beautiful the way that God just wooed you in that. A, which I like what you said way back in the beginning, God just meets us where we are. He met your little 13 year old ex Jehovah witness, what the hell is going on in my life? I am all alone, little heart. Through the step-grandmother as...
Bethany Gassan (33:42.358)
Mm hmm. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (33:50.264)
Yep.
Melissa Lapin (33:57.022)
whatever that relationship was, you know, and then the next thing and the next thing. And he does that. He woos us just to, you know, it's from glory to glory. He woos us to the next revelation of him and that's the glory. And then we can put that in our backpack. We can look at that mountain and go, okay, I can still go, you know, and then we go to the next thing that he shows us. And I love that. And you've always said that since I've known you.
Bethany Gassan (34:12.058)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (34:18.051)
Yeah?
Melissa Lapin (34:26.366)
you know, you're always adamant about it was one step at a time. It was one moment at a time because I wasn't jumping in and selling my soul to the next thing, you know, and a lot of people do that. And I think we grab on real hard and then we fall real hard because we put all our eggs in one basket and we have all of these expectations of this one church or this one relationship or this one thing.
Bethany Gassan (34:31.225)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (34:39.23)
No.
Melissa Lapin (34:55.218)
And the only thing that we can do that with is our relationship with the Trinity. Whatever that looks like for you. But we trip ourselves up and we hold ourselves down when we're trying to make, we're just, we want spectacular. And we think only Jesus can only meet us Sunday morning during a service. You know, I mean, the woman at the well was getting water.
Bethany Gassan (35:02.144)
Yeah, so true.
Bethany Gassan (35:25.068)
Yeah, I've heard you talk, I was listening to the one with you and Helen and you're like, she was doing an everyday thing. And it, I had the, it's funny. I encourage people, like, especially women coming out of relationships or whatever. It's like spend time by yourself. I promise you the time that comes out of that. I thought it was going to be horrible, but it's some of the best times where God met me even in the junk.
Melissa Lapin (35:31.338)
Everyday Task.
Melissa Lapin (35:45.046)
Yes.
Bethany Gassan (35:54.392)
I mean, absolute junk. I've had two opportunities to live by myself. And I would say my relationship with Jesus, with the Trinity actually as a whole, cause I met, I had different seasons with different parts of the Trinity where I spent more time. And just...
Melissa Lapin (35:55.788)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (36:08.355)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (36:15.08)
again even in the wants to be part of the conversation. Yep it was just a amazing space where I got to be free to
Melissa Lapin (36:19.564)
Keep, keep talking.
Bethany Gassan (36:35.44)
explore with him that relationship, get a deeper understanding. So some of those times where I was the loneliest on earth, I was the most, being the most growth spurts through with him, right? And yet, and it filled me in ways that I can't, I don't know if I even have language to surround. It was just, they were the catapult moments.
Melissa Lapin (36:52.829)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (36:56.108)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (37:05.398)
Well, it's, it's personal and it's not, it's, it's like.
Bethany Gassan (37:05.461)
of so much. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (37:14.532)
there was a statement in there that I can't even explain, right?
Melissa Lapin (37:14.658)
Well, okay, well some-
Right, right. Well, the intimacy, I was going to say, you don't invite people into your marriage bed. I mean, some people do, but you know, and those people have the messed up relationships. But it's like, you know, you and when you're married, you and your spouse, you want that time together. You know, even if you've got kids, you don't always want your kids on you or around you or whatever because
Bethany Gassan (37:37.017)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (37:43.958)
you talk about different things, you act a different way. And it's the same thing with, which is with the Trinity just hanging out. And just for those of you who are listening that think we're getting a little bit off course or heretical, like the Trinity, yes, is one of the same Father, Son, Holy Spirit. And yet they each have their own attribute. They are consubstantial, they are the same. And yet.
Bethany Gassan (38:09.74)
Yeah. And yet I've spent seasons with
Holy Spirit have spent seasons with Father and had seasons with Jesus where it's not, it's the personhood of, and there's so much to explore in each of that came out of that. And I, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (38:15.822)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (38:23.814)
Yes. Yeah, and it's personal and it's beautiful and it's necessary. It is so necessary because you cannot live, we cannot live our relationship on somebody else's experiences. We have to have our own, you know? We can't.
Bethany Gassan (38:31.896)
Yeah, it is.
Bethany Gassan (38:46.836)
Yep, my husband's a great example. So when I met Mac, he was, he'll say agnostic. I would say he wrote his thesis on being scientist by atheists. So he was borderlining on both. And just through, I never preached to him. I never asked him to church. I never did anything. It was just being me.
Melissa Lapin (38:56.47)
Ha ha ha.
Okay.
Bethany Gassan (39:10.644)
And even his eldest daughter, who is a claimed atheist that now believes in him, she's not ready to follow, but she believes in him. All just because for me, that developed relationship is that he's my friend that lives with me every single day in everyday life. We do things together all day long. And so, um, there were two major things that happened. I mean, you fast forward to all these experiences here and I'm
Melissa Lapin (39:28.79)
Uh huh.
Bethany Gassan (39:38.34)
The way I learn is very much encounter based. Everybody has their own way that they learn. I am very much encounter based. And so reading a book for me is hell a struggle. Hell a struggle for me to get out. Hell a struggle. It is not my gag, right? It takes very few that I've ever finished a book because it's tough for me. Ask me to go into an encounter and I will learn more in that encounter than I will out of the book. And so for me, that's just how I'm built.
Melissa Lapin (39:41.332)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (39:57.569)
Right.
Bethany Gassan (40:07.96)
But it's hard when you're around people that that's not how they're built and they think they need to look that way. And you're like, no, you don't. You're going to have your own way of learning and allowing them the freedom. So for my husband, he said for me, it was in the beginning, we were praying over things that were going on in his life. And it was through the final child custody with his, the divorce was done, but the child custody was still not settled. And that was round and round. And we were praying.
and my girlfriend and I were praying and he said, and I never really talked about, I didn't use the word prophetic, I didn't use anything, I never said, he just said, oh, you believe in God. I said, oh, I do. And that was it. And he was like, oh, okay. And then like a month later, he said, you've never asked me to church. I'm like, well, you know, I kind of have some different beliefs. And I just left it simple and blank and let him explore wherever he was gonna go. But.
At one point, we started, it really felt, led to start interceding for him and praying. My girlfriend and I were praying and we were coming up with stuff. And so I was like, God, you gotta give me language to how do I say this to him? So I said, hey, you know, I know you know that I believe in God. My friend and I were praying and you came up and here's what I feel like's gonna happen coming forward. And then 30 days later, it happened. And we did this multiple times. And finally, he looks and he said,
Melissa Lapin (41:27.702)
Hmm.
Bethany Gassan (41:32.72)
Do you and your friend have spidey senses? And I said, and God goes, don't you correct him. And I said, okay. I said, yes, we do. That's not what we would call it, but yeah, it's great. And he goes, okay. He goes, do you have other friends with spidey senses? I said, yeah, I do. And he's like, okay. And then it kept going. And then finally, he actually looked up and it was months later and he said,
Melissa Lapin (41:37.339)
Better.
Melissa Lapin (41:46.574)
Sure.
Bethany Gassan (42:02.096)
you know, you're the first person, people that I met, that you pray and shit happens. That was his comment and I laughed. God was like, don't correct him. I mean, I don't know how many times God said don't correct him because he didn't want me to have his, my language wasn't for him. Right? So you go through all of this, back became a believer. I mean, later on, right, took another year for him and it's like the whole path. But in this last summer, just this last summer.
Melissa Lapin (42:09.887)
Ha, yes! Yes.
Melissa Lapin (42:19.094)
Right, right. That's awesome.
Bethany Gassan (42:32.428)
We had some experiences. We went on a trip with Dub to South Africa. We were doing the ambassador trip, right? Mac had already some trepidation going, saying I'm not prepared for this. And it's like, it's fine. He got thrown into a few things, felt a little ill-prepared, but it was good. Even though it was challenging for him, it was also a catalyst. Because now I went on the second trip, Mac couldn't go on that one, which was Sweden and Hungary. And while I was gone, he says, hey, I wanna do this Castile.
Melissa Lapin (42:36.023)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (43:02.4)
and it was Encounters with Jesus, and it was by the Undivided Heart Girls, which is amazing, right? I said, send it to me, I wanna know who it is first, right? Like I wanted to know who's speaking into my husband's life, right? And as soon as I saw him, I said, yes, yes and yes, right? I was so excited. And so we went through a week where this, and he said, oh, this is at my level, like bite size for him, right? And so.
Melissa Lapin (43:06.918)
Oh, yes, come on. Love them.
Melissa Lapin (43:13.459)
If it's legit, yeah, sure.
Bethany Gassan (43:28.588)
The last night, I think it was, they were supposed to ask Jesus for an encounter, like, whatever. And for Mac, it was, can you come have coffee with me? And one of my husband's, like, food and drink, sit down, that's my husband's thing. So like, can you come have coffee with me? And so we asked, and the first night got nothing. So the night after the week-long encounters are done, I'm unpacking and getting stuff done because I've just come home from Hungary and I'm still on a whole different sleep schedule.
And I'm upstairs and I'm on the computer for a minute and he comes in and he is just ball crying. And I said, what's wrong? He said, I just had a connery Jesus. I just had a connery. And he had gone out to the hot tub, made himself a drink, got in the hot tub. And he's like, all right, I'm gonna, I'm gonna try this again. I'm not going to give up on that. It didn't happen the first time, which is big for me because he's kind of a one and done guy.
Melissa Lapin (44:08.266)
Hmm.
Bethany Gassan (44:27.704)
Like, hey, I asked you, you didn't come. So he asked again and Jesus took him into a coffee shop and they had a whole conversation, right? And so for him, he had his first and they had a whole thing, right? And I've always said, I said, I can't have the encounter for you. And that may be not how Jesus is gonna talk to you. And encounters aren't his norm. He hears through music. When we do prophetic hour,
Melissa Lapin (44:33.954)
Come on.
Melissa Lapin (44:38.208)
Jehovah Java.
Nice.
Melissa Lapin (44:45.517)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (44:54.658)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (44:56.3)
He hears music lyrics for people. And I'm like, one of these days, my husband is gonna rap over, because he hears old rap lyrics all the time for people. Right? So everybody has their own way. And my daughter, even her, like she said, you know, mama, I believe he's real, but I'm not ready to follow him. And I said, hmm, why do you believe he's real? And she said, because you talk to him like he's in the room and he's your friend. And I said, well, because he is.
Melissa Lapin (45:03.66)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (45:08.333)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (45:25.676)
Like he's not dead. We didn't leave him on the cross. And we sure didn't leave him in the grave. So I just, you know, let's go all the way through. I said, he's alive, here, active. And I said, so how do you know? And she goes, well, you have a tell. I said, what do you mean? She goes, like a poker player tell. And I'm like.
Melissa Lapin (45:42.562)
I'm sorry.
Bethany Gassan (45:46.284)
hysterical. My oldest daughter has a sense of humor that is hysterical. And I said, how is, what's my tell? And I guess that when I'm talking to her and I want to know whether I should share, not share, or what I need to say, I stop and I always look up to the right. I guess I have a look to the right. She said, I always know that you're asking him, and so what comes next is from him. And I thought from a girl who's an atheist.
Melissa Lapin (46:11.232)
Mm.
Come on, she's not an atheist.
Bethany Gassan (46:16.004)
God's already had her, right? And so I kind of laugh with, we are this, you know, our walk, our journey is an everyday thing. And if we just show up with what he is and not, I've never told them they have to do anything. I've never, I've watched my family bloom. I've watched them grow. And so, yeah, the woman at the well for me is, yes, you're known.
Melissa Lapin (46:17.346)
Come on.
Melissa Lapin (46:31.99)
Yes.
Melissa Lapin (46:37.656)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (46:43.424)
And I've had the yes, you're known so many times in my life. He said to tell me you're known over and over again, just because of my walk. But what that's meant is in those moments, I just get to show up with him and be me, who he created me to be and who we are, which is friends above all else. So that gentleman piece of being friends, we're friends. And I show up with my friend all the time. I show up with my daddy all the time.
Melissa Lapin (46:49.675)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (47:11.916)
I show up with my father sometimes. I show up with my husband sometimes. I show up with my, I mean, we're like little kids and go play Holy Spirit, right? Like sometimes it's serious and sometimes I am five to eight and we are having a heyday and a sleepover, right? It doesn't matter. I just get to show up and it's great. So right, all those people, all those personhoods and character are the parts we get to know. And I love exploring even more of those. I was like, oh.
Melissa Lapin (47:29.666)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (47:38.603)
Yeah.
Well, yeah, I mean, because if you think about it, the elders in heaven, every time they circle they throw their crowns down because they worship another facet of the Trinity that they've experienced and they've encountered. So why would we think we get any less of an opportunity to see different sides of Jesus or God or Holy Spirit? They're not going to show up like...
Bethany Gassan (47:41.924)
Another facet.
Bethany Gassan (47:50.989)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (48:02.035)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (48:10.51)
cookie cutter, same way every day. That's so boring. I wouldn't, yes, that would be so boring. I'm like, okay, what new you got? I hate redundant. My version of hell would be like on assembly line with someone sitting next to me who talks about nothing. That's like, I hate redundancy that bad, right? It's every day. It's like, time to.
Bethany Gassan (48:13.668)
Thank God. I was just gonna say thank God, because I would be bored out of my mind.
Bethany Gassan (48:33.328)
Just look, Brown Hog's Day, Brown Hog's Day.
Melissa Lapin (48:36.15)
Time to make the donuts, you know? It's every day the same thing, you know? And that's not at all. Like he looks me back through scripture, God, Old Testament, New Testament, God didn't show up for people the same way. Like he showed up for every single person differently and he showed up multiple times for those people differently.
Bethany Gassan (48:40.845)
Oh my god.
Bethany Gassan (48:53.345)
No!
Bethany Gassan (49:00.016)
The cool part is, if you want them all, you get access to them all. We have access to all of it. And my husband's like, yeah, I'm not there yet. I like this part. I'm like, go for it. Explore it. Have fun. Okay, great. Like, there's no, it has to look a certain way. He created us all uniquely, individually, and appreciating that in all of us has been, and that's been, I mean, I tie this back in. I'm going to loop it. I'm going to...
Melissa Lapin (49:03.707)
Yes. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (49:17.634)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (49:29.296)
take this and loop it in another direction is, for me, coming out of the life I had, I mean, I'm not saying I wasn't angry or not bitter. Obviously, I talked about starting with screaming and yelling and did God have to do some healing? Sure. But the one thing he did impress upon me when I was young was because I didn't have authority figures that were there for me.
Melissa Lapin (49:41.422)
Mm-hmm.
Bethany Gassan (49:57.188)
protecting me as I thought, right? Like the list as a kid, right? How you beat as a kid. But pouring into my life the way other people did or their parents did, I learned to glean, you know, they take the, well, age-old saying, well, it's a Southern saying, at least I know, don't throw the baby out with the bath water, right? Is learning what they did have to offer. What could I learn from my mom, even though there was all this other junk tied?
Melissa Lapin (50:17.243)
Yeah, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (50:22.446)
bright.
Bethany Gassan (50:26.564)
so that I didn't ever disown because what was done to me, I was never gonna do to somebody else. And so being disowned, being cut off, I was like, I'm not gonna cut people off. There may be healthy boundaries. There may be some things that I had to learn. And I was, God taught me young how to set the healthy boundaries. The problem I had was keeping them because that wasn't even a thing in my life. So as an adult, we've had to learn, oh, you're supposed to hold that, right? So, and all of those great parts, right? But you learn how to
Melissa Lapin (50:31.905)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (50:36.734)
Yeah, for sure.
Melissa Lapin (50:43.714)
Hmm. Right? Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (50:57.292)
appreciate all the different facets in people and if we look at it, why would I not do the same with Jesus and God? Right? It's the what are all your facets that I get to because you created all of us and you've had me appreciated in them, then how do I get to appreciate how much you are not a cookie cutter? And thank goodness for those of us who get bored easy.
Melissa Lapin (51:00.888)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (51:06.163)
Yeah, it's good.
Melissa Lapin (51:19.538)
like, right? Amen to that. That'll preach all day long. It's like if you're bored in church, do something different. Ask God different questions because you'll get a different answer. So this has been fun and we've already burned up 51 minutes of a 40 minute podcast. So I know I knew this would be easy. Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (51:31.108)
Yep. It's great.
Melissa Lapin (51:43.806)
So I warned you about a nugget. So what would be a nugget that you would want to leave with the listeners to the things that we've talked about today?
Bethany Gassan (51:54.472)
Do you know, which I just highlighted on, but I will probably say one of the biggest things that came out of all of that in my life was learning that forgiveness, we are taught in the church, does not mean what we think it means. And
I know you said no quotes, but it started with a quote for me. So how God took me, I know you said, but it's the journey afterwards. It's the journey, Melissa. Which was, and I know, I think it was Beth Moore that people quoted out of, but it came before that. It's out of, I think it's a Chinese proverb actually, which is unforgiveness is like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die. And
Melissa Lapin (52:25.205)
It's cool.
Melissa Lapin (52:46.96)
Yes, yeah.
Bethany Gassan (52:50.816)
It gave me a quick perspective of I was the only one I was hurting myself. And being able to sit with that, with the Lord, and take me through a journey, right? Of how do we appreciate the people along the way so that I don't stay in bitterness and I can keep going up the mountain and I can enjoy the journey and I don't get stuck in those processes. And finding the golden people, right? All of those lessons have built on that foundation of that comment of
Melissa Lapin (52:56.123)
So good.
Melissa Lapin (53:09.963)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (53:18.776)
Forgiveness didn't mean letting them back in. Forgiveness didn't mean not setting a boundary. Forgiveness didn't mean, it meant that I didn't hold a single debt. They didn't owe me anything, not even an apology. And if I can get to that point, then I've reached forgiveness. And I just had a recent, you know, my ex-husband that brought me here to Alaska, just had a recent, first time I saw him in almost 10 years.
Melissa Lapin (53:21.71)
Oh, that's good. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (53:33.293)
Yeah.
Bethany Gassan (53:46.756)
came back and unfortunately we had a death in the family and I got to walk out. Have I really walked through all the pieces of forgiveness? Have we really? And it was so amazing to see God go, do you see how well that you could do this without having that I had really walked through with him and allowed God to walk through the process? And so we have, we all have a story. We all have a testimony. We all have life.
And I would say my biggest nugget along the way to keep that going and growing in those pieces of him were to learn forgiveness at a very deep level, quick and fast and not hold on the longer it goes, the harder it is. And so, right? No!
Melissa Lapin (54:23.362)
Ah, so good. That's a whole nother podcast right there. Told you not to do that!
Bethany Gassan (54:29.072)
But it's been my journey to allow me to walk this out. So with that, I would say that's where the process, that's part of the, that was a, those are major catalysts of this journey up the mountain. So.
Melissa Lapin (54:30.635)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (54:41.654)
Yeah, for sure. I think forgiveness might be the mountain. We just keep walking up it, you know?
Bethany Gassan (54:46.551)
F.
Hey Melissa, there you go!
Melissa Lapin (54:51.858)
You know, I mean, because that's ultimately it is, I think, because we have to forgive others, we have to forgive ourselves, we have to forgive what we think about God and what he did and scream and holler at God and get mad at him because he didn't do this and that. We're like, sorry, God, right? And it's all about just forgiveness, even on the cross. Forgive them for they don't know what they do.
Bethany Gassan (55:05.961)
Oh, yes, we do!
Bethany Gassan (55:15.532)
It is? Oh.
Melissa Lapin (55:18.882)
Come on, this will preach. I'm not gonna do a whole nother podcast. Let's keep going. So good, so good. I will have you back another time to talk about the forgiveness mountain, the mountain of forgiveness. Let's add that to the seven mountain mandate. Let's make it eight mountain.
Bethany Gassan (55:24.101)
Where's round two?
Bethany Gassan (55:29.016)
I love it.
Bethany Gassan (55:38.)
Well, if we're doing that, then we're adding the encounter with Jesus at the cross, because that was the encounter that launched most of that. So, that's...
Melissa Lapin (55:45.354)
What? Okay, throw that out there for podcast number two. Right? That's the hook to keep them coming back.
Bethany Gassan (55:50.373)
at the end, at the end!
Bethany Gassan (55:55.502)
Hahaha
I am so grateful to be here. Thank you so much. This was fun.
Melissa Lapin (56:01.458)
Yeah, it was fun. I really appreciate that. So I think with that, my friends, we will land this plane. And I just want to thank everybody for listening. If this is your first time, glad you found this episode, go back and listen to a bunch more and tell all your friends to come and hang out with us and just chat and hope you get some good nugget takeaways. And if this is not your first time here, thank you for returning and
I appreciate the patronage and the just the support. I know that there are those of you out there who tell me quite often, I love this latest episode and even if it's just one of you, it makes me feel good and it makes this all worth it. So blessings and until we meet again, don't give up, keep walking, keep going up that mountain and you know, look down at the valley and see all the goodness of where you've come from.
So yeah, so blessings and catch you on the next one.
Bethany Gassan (56:59.62)
So true. See ya.
