ATW - Chat with Dr. Tony Robinson

Season #2 June 12, 2024

Summary

In this conversation, Dr. Toni Robinson shares her journey of faith and how she came to know Jesus on a personal level. She talks about the challenges she faced, including the loss of her job and home, and how she learned to trust God in the midst of it all. Dr. Toni emphasizes the importance of authenticity and vulnerability in our relationship with God and with others. She also highlights the power of community and how sharing our struggles can inspire and encourage others. In this part of the conversation, Tony and Melissa discuss the importance of vulnerability and transparency. They emphasize the need for people to share their experiences in the middle of their struggles, rather than only sharing testimonies at the end. They also highlight the importance of creating safe spaces where people can be honest about their pain and receive support. They discuss the need to stop demonizing people's pain and to provide understanding and compassion instead. Finally, they encourage listeners to exchange the distorted image of themselves for the truth of their beautiful identity. In this conversation, Dr. Toni Robinson and Melissa Lapin discuss the importance of knowing that we are seen, known, and loved by God. They emphasize the need to challenge the lies and distorted images we may have about ourselves and God. They encourage listeners to ask themselves what is in their hearts that makes them believe anything other than what God knows is true about them. They also highlight the impact we have on others, even when we may not realize it, and the importance of shining where we are.

Takeaways

-Authenticity and vulnerability are key in our relationship with God and with others.

-We are not alone in our struggles; there are others going through similar challenges.

-Our choices and actions have an impact on those around us, whether we realize it or not.

-Trusting God in difficult times can lead to personal growth and a deeper understanding of His love and faithfulness. Vulnerability and transparency are essential for creating connections and providing hope in the midst of struggles.

-Sharing experiences in the middle of the journey can be more impactful than only sharing testimonies at the end.

-Creating safe spaces where people can be honest about their pain and receive support is crucial.

-It is important to stop demonizing people's pain and instead provide understanding and compassion. We are seen, known, and loved by God. It is important to challenge any lies or distorted images we may have about ourselves and God.

-Ask yourself what is in your heart that makes you believe anything other than what God knows is true about you.

-Our lives have an impact on others, even when we may not realize it. We should strive to shine where we are and be transparent and vulnerable.

-Stop believing the lies and excuses that hold you back. Trust in God's plan for your life and step into your authority as a son or daughter of God.

Episode Transcript

Melissa Lapin (00:07.848)
Hi everybody and welcome back to After the Well. This is season two and I've got some great fun guests on this year coming up. And today I have a fairly new friend, Dr. Toni Robinson. She is one of the professors in school of kingdom, which is how I met her. Hi, Dr. Toni, how are you?

Tony (00:32.823)
I'm good. How are you? Thank you for having me here. I'm so excited.

Melissa Lapin (00:34.981)
I'm-

Good. I'm good. Thanks. I'm glad you came. So y'all, I want to y'all. I'm gonna do this introduction, semi professionally and then we'll jump in here. Because I love this. I was I when I have guests, I usually troll them on social media for a little bit and pick out some things but so here's Dr. Tony's about description from her Facebook, which I love.

Tony (00:47.982)
I'm gonna go to bed.

Melissa Lapin (01:04.624)
It's very powerful statement. So kudos to you or whomever who ever wrote it It says dr. Tony Robinson is a prolific strategist and advisor with a proven track record in serving and training executives business leaders and entrepreneurs and hearing God's voice for their prophetic strategies and solutions for their business from startups to multi

million dollar companies dr tony has mentored and advised faith-based leaders across the globe on how to activate god's assignment over both themselves and their organizations mic drop i want somebody to say that about me someday

Tony (01:42.56)
Hahahaha

Tony (01:48.786)
And they will, and they are.

Melissa Lapin (01:50.924)
I am declaring that I'm working toward that. But yeah, so I wanted you on because I love watching you and how you interact. I love seeing you at school and in the Joe Kingdom podcast and some of the live events that we've been at together. And I love, love your authenticity.

I love it. It's very attractive to me because that is a high core value for me is authenticity. And so I would, we kind of zigzag on this episode. We might circle around, do a little loopty loops and come back and touch on some things. But so all of that said, I would like to know.

Tony (02:24.483)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (02:45.64)
When was your well moment when you became aware that

Jesus was not just your grandmom's Jesus. It was, because I don't know if you grew up with faith, grew up in a church, not grew up in a church, but we all have that moment when we go, oh, he's my Jesus and I'm his. So what did that look like for you? Like a little bit of your back history before we go somewhere else, I don't know.

Tony (02:57.866)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (03:07.626)
Yes.

Tony (03:13.934)
Thank you.

Okay, you know, it's funny. Well, first of all, I have to say this because it's going to just it's taking up space in my brain. And so until I say it, it's just going to keep speaking to me. But I absolutely love your glasses. I love the shape of them, the color of them and how they're framing. And because I noticed that because the lenses in which we look through usually are how we frame the world. And so it's like very exploratory. And this like

Melissa Lapin (03:30.824)
Oh, thank you.

Melissa Lapin (03:42.977)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (03:44.278)
Like, I just love it. It's like, oh, it's like how she looks at the world. So I did grow up in faith or I grew up in churches, what I should say, because I didn't have a necessary of faith that was produced out of the religious institution for lack of a better word that I grew up in. But I've always, ever since a little girl, like I've had a deep, passionate love for God. And

Melissa Lapin (03:46.072)
Thank you.

Melissa Lapin (04:05.42)
Come on.

Tony (04:12.834)
Like he always spoke to me. There wasn't a time that I can remember, even as a little girl, that God wasn't speaking to me and like I wasn't aware that God was my friend. And so I remember walking home from school and just like the trees would be blowing and it was like an awareness of God and just like how much he loved me and me always wanting to be close to him.

Melissa Lapin (04:23.234)
Hmm.

Tony (04:35.882)
but we're go through life and childhood, these teenage years and all these things. And so coming into what I would say is the reality of the kingdom happened in my mid-20s, but it wasn't really into, I did all the things like we were in church, we were serving, we were on ministerial staff, but it wasn't into.

roughly about 2006 when my complete world started falling apart, which is why I love the name of this podcast. I love it so much. Our world began to fall apart in 2006. Well, in 2000, I had an encounter where I was walking out doing my morning walk and the Lord just kind of in his kindness says, you don't know me.

And I was like, wait a minute, what? And he's like, you don't know me. And I was like, oh, I know you. And he's like, you don't know me. And I was like, if I don't know anything in this world, I know you. He's like, I know my name and I know you. And he's like, but you don't. And I'm like, and at this time I'm like, I've been ordained as a prophet. I'm in leadership and I'm doing all the stuff, right? I'm in ministry. And then to have God politely say, but you don't know me.

Melissa Lapin (05:29.711)
Hmm.

Tony (05:56.926)
And I was like, well, what do you mean? Like you gotta explain this, because first I went the religious route like, you know what, I rebuke you Satan. I bind every lying spirit from whispering in my ear. And he's like, you go far too often, far too often. And he's like, this isn't the enemy and you can't bind me. And you know that you know my voice. So you know that. And I was like, Lord, what do you mean? He said, you only know what men have.

Melissa Lapin (06:10.656)
we do that? Like, how, I mean like, oh man.

Melissa Lapin (06:21.048)
Come on.

Tony (06:26.062)
hold you about me. And I said, but I, and he's like, everything you do is from the space of what you've been told, how you read the scriptures. And I was like, but he's like, okay, what does this scripture mean? And I was like, oh, that's easy. It means X, Y, Z. And he's like, well, why do you think you mean it means that? And I said, oh, because we, we took, I learned this and oh, okay. Well, what does this scripture mean? And he

Melissa Lapin (06:28.418)
Mmm.

Tony (06:55.434)
was not out of a place of knowing him and knowing the word. It was knowing what I had been taught that meant. And it was taught out of context and I had to come to awareness like, oh, I really don't know you. So I went on this journey to know him. But in 2006, when our world fell apart and it was just a really traumatic time. My husband...

Melissa Lapin (07:02.049)
Yeah.

Tony (07:20.79)
had a very, very good job and that job came to an end. It was like the season where every three months something happened, he lost his job. And then, well, his mom died and then he lost his job and then the engine blew up in our car. And then three months later, it was just this really rough season. And I was just like trying to figure out like, can I be frank and like, what the hell is going on? Because I like...

Melissa Lapin (07:35.749)
Dang!

Tony (07:45.89)
Like we're not appointed to the wrath of God. Like, are you mad at us? Did you break up with us? Like what's happening, right? And we went through this transitionary process of losing everything. And it was a lot to process, but it was in that moment where he literally made himself known to me. And in that place, out of that place in 2006, birthed something called

Melissa Lapin (07:48.652)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (08:08.289)
Mmm.

Tony (08:15.85)
the well watered woman. Where I begin to have these moments with Jesus, these deep well moments where he would remind me, like I know you and I know every single thing about your life. And even if everything you're experiencing right now feels like disappointment, there's no disappointment in me. And my love for you is a hope.

Melissa Lapin (08:18.056)
Okay, come on.

Melissa Lapin (08:39.57)
Mmm.

Tony (08:42.634)
Like I have a hope for your future, I have a future. So it was in that timeframe where he just really cultivated the reality of who he was and who he is in my life. It was a process. Yes.

Melissa Lapin (08:54.036)
Mm-hmm. So to you, I mean, he became something different to you. I mean, just like the woman at the well, she had all of these things. I mean, because like and I've studied her like, I mean, she had children and everything. Most people don't know that. But she had she had sons that started being evangelists with her. And if you have five husbands, it's not like you a spring chicken.

Tony (09:02.903)
Yes.

Tony (09:13.474)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (09:23.08)
right? So, I mean, she had a life. And then so all of these things, you know, and I was thinking about that, like all those things that happened to you was like the husbands and the deaths and divorces because divorce was perfectly legal in Samaritan culture, you know? And so was she kicked to the curb or did her husband die? You know, like, I'm sure she had like, okay, God, what's next?

Tony (09:23.653)
Dang! Right! Really! Right!

Yes.

Tony (09:42.549)
Yes.

Tony (09:47.198)
if we don't know. Yes, yes. Yes.

Melissa Lapin (09:52.64)
God did the same thing to her and you. It's like, okay, go get your husband and let's talk about who I, you know, she's like, okay, obviously you're a prophet. So he questioned you. Okay, let, you know, who do you say I am, Peter?

Tony (10:04.438)
Yes, that's really what it amounted to. Like, who do you say I am? And that six year gap from 2000, when he first brought me into awareness, like, oh, I know religion, but I don't know you, that cultivated the space that had I not had that six year journey of really getting to walk with him and know him, when our world began to fall apart in 2006.

Melissa Lapin (10:09.654)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (10:25.269)
Yeah.

Tony (10:30.522)
I might have fallen apart with it. And it was just like, because it was a really rough season going from living a dream life to living a life where you are for all intents and purposes considered legally homeless. Like we were living in a good four kids in a transitional living space. And it was like all of the things. And there were thoughts, like I remember one day driving down the 215 and just had to stop because it was...

Melissa Lapin (10:33.314)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (10:45.665)
Yeah.

Tony (10:59.566)
For me, it was such a place of suffering to have lost everything, right? And really it was stuff. It's like at the end of the day, we didn't lose anything, we just lost stuff. We didn't lose his mom. Like she's found, she is with the king. Like she is in the cloud of witnesses. So even having to reframe what that looks like when someone transitions into a different realm, they're not lost, we know where they are.

Melissa Lapin (11:11.188)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (11:16.038)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (11:23.37)
Yeah.

Tony (11:27.13)
And so, but in our selfishness and self, because we get selfish about our stuff. Like if you lose a house, like it's embarrassing. We lost our home. And it's like, I feel like everybody's looking at us, like, because we've never gone through anything that wasn't public. I remember one time I'm saying, God, can we just have private trials? Like everything, I mean, like we're not Ezekiel, we're New Covenant. Why is everything we're going through so public?

Melissa Lapin (11:33.133)
Sure.

Melissa Lapin (11:42.357)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (11:46.516)
Right?

Melissa Lapin (11:53.539)
Right?

Tony (11:54.158)
like the loss of a job like that is very public. You know, we're in a community and it was like, oh my gosh, it's like the loss of a home is, you know, all of these things are very public and like living in a homeless kind of place is very public. I'm like, can't we have some secret trials? Some secret trials. Right, right. And so, but it was like, but when you're a forerunner and you're a prototype,

Melissa Lapin (12:13.918)
What happened to being in my closet, God?

Tony (12:22.626)
You don't always know why you're going through things that you're going through or why you're experiencing the things you're experiencing. And I remember just driving on the freeway and it was like the 215 freeway and it didn't have a barrier. And I had this thought that just said, you know, if I were to turn the wheel, just a smidgen and go into this traffic, everyone would assume it was an accident and I would be free of this suffering.

Melissa Lapin (12:24.992)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (12:38.328)
Mm-mm.

Tony (12:52.466)
And I immediately heard the voice of the father say, and what makes you think it will work? And I was like, he's like, listen, I have a plan for your life. And this isn't part of the plan. And you don't know that that's gonna work. And he said, sometimes he could talk to me some kind of way cause he know I respond. And I remember hearing them say, is listen, I got something for you to do.

Melissa Lapin (13:03.704)
Mmm.

Melissa Lapin (13:07.48)
Well.

Melissa Lapin (13:16.651)
Yep.

Melissa Lapin (13:21.099)
Yeah.

Tony (13:21.29)
And you get to decide how you do it. And I was like, wait, I'm driving. Like, wait, what he said? You could try this and you could, and it's not gonna work because I have plans for you and you're gonna be doing what I've called you to do. But you just could be doing it from a wheelchair or you could do it on your own volation in your, on your own two feet. Like, cause we're still gonna do the thing that we have for you to do. And I was like, you make me sick. I don't love you. We're not friends. Stop talking to me right now.

Melissa Lapin (13:45.568)
Wow.

Tony (13:51.138)
Thank you for saving my life. I just can't. He's like, you can do all things through me. Girl, get your life together. Come out of yourself. Put your attention on me. And because it's an invitation for you to express joy in all things and to give thanks in all things. Ha ha ha.

Melissa Lapin (14:09.488)
You know, that it's a choice. Everything is a choice. So in that, again, being as vulnerable as you want to be, what were some of the some lessons that you learned about yourself? What were some of your, does that make sense? Like you're like, oh, I'm more materialistic than I thought. Or, oh, I, da, da. Cause I, girl, I have those conversations all the time.

Tony (14:31.058)
Yes.

Yes!

Tony (14:38.782)
Yes, you know, it's kind of like you come to realization that I am more self-focused. And sometimes I would like to believe I'm just self-reflective. And it's like, no, you're self-focused. Like, exactly because, you know, I am who I am and I really like nice things. Like, if you know me, I know I like nice things. I'm not materialistic.

Melissa Lapin (14:55.28)
I'm just trying to better myself. I'm like, mm. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (15:04.236)
Uh huh.

Tony (15:08.486)
Then it was very much different, right? And so I'm not materialistic, but I do have a bent towards nice things, which is fine because a kingdom is nice things. But it was like, it was in this moment. This is the moment that brought me to the reality that I needed to stop navel gazing because it's always me, right? Is when I was saying, God, this is just so hard. Like, this is just so hard.

Melissa Lapin (15:10.818)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (15:16.876)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (15:28.629)
Mmm.

Tony (15:37.738)
Look at my kids, my kids are suffering and my kids deserve better than this. And God talks really frank to me, talks to me with love, but he's real one-on-one honest, he said, you don't care about those kids. This isn't about them. And I was like, wait, I love me. I know you didn't cause I, I love my kids. Like they are my world. He's like, you love your kids. They're not your world. I'm like, what'd he say? You are your world and you're evolving around yourself. You're I was like, what?

Melissa Lapin (15:43.128)
Mmm.

Melissa Lapin (16:03.273)
Oh, okay.

Tony (16:07.454)
And he's like, yeah. And he said, because you're offering your kids as a sacrificial offering. See, sometimes we think sacrificing kids stopped in the old covenant. But we do that kind of stuff, almost said shit. We do that kind of stuff all the time, right? As we say stuff like, my kids deserve better than this. God, please move. Please give us, please do for us, because my kids deserve better. And yeah, maybe they do.

Melissa Lapin (16:17.14)
Mmmm

Melissa Lapin (16:20.88)
You say what you want.

Melissa Lapin (16:31.877)
Mmm.

Tony (16:36.77)
But it's not about the kids. In that moment, it was about my comfort. I didn't wanna be living in a one bedroom hotel room with six people, my husband and my four kids. I wanted my own house with my own room. Everybody could have their space where we could stretch out in comfort and peace. So it had nothing to do with my kids because if I didn't have kids, I would feel sad. God, I'm suffering. It's like, but.

Melissa Lapin (16:42.85)
Mmm.

Melissa Lapin (16:50.434)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (16:59.153)
You'd still want it.

Melissa Lapin (17:03.508)
Yeah.

Tony (17:04.17)
My husband, he worked so hard. He was let go unjustly. God, you have to do this for him. So it was good. The whining was gonna still be there. So it was, and it was like, wow, like, this is an invitation for me to get over myself because it's not always about me. And it's like, and sometimes when we're going through processes, we like to imagine that we're the only one going through the process.

Melissa Lapin (17:10.914)
Mm.

Melissa Lapin (17:14.444)
Yeah.

Tony (17:34.706)
And when it's all about us, like we're self-focused, self-realization, self-awareness, you know, we're self-aware, but we're not. But when it's about us, we can forget that there's other people that are in the process as well. And it makes you think like, wow, like one, for obvious saying that I got from a really good friend of mine, my former pastor, Zach Westerler, he said,

Melissa Lapin (17:35.561)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (17:44.262)
Yeah.

Tony (18:05.158)
is like, all this complaining, that just attracts what you don't want. You want to bring in the angelic, you want to bring in grace, get in gratitude. And so I'm serving demon food by my complaining, like is, you know, devil food cake. What is that chocolate cake? Because, you know, sometimes in religiosity, we don't like to eat devil food cake. We angel food cake. We don't have potlucks. We have pot blessings.

Melissa Lapin (18:05.95)
Okay.

Melissa Lapin (18:09.452)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (18:20.376)
I'm sorry.

Melissa Lapin (18:31.65)
Angel tags, not devil tags.

Tony (18:33.086)
Right, right, right. And so, but it's like having to make and keep an awareness of that I'm not the only one in the process. First of all, because I'm not alone. Jesus is with me. The Trinity is with me. But being aware of everyone else in the trial as well, so that we can all come out as gold, because we're going through it as gold.

Melissa Lapin (19:01.)
Right, so that begs the question in this, did you have community, like authentic, like real community that you could bounce these ideas off or, you know, because we all do, we're like, oh, nobody will understand me, you know, and we don't reach out, we draw and, you know, just swim in our own pity pool. But did you have community to?

Tony (19:19.246)
Thank you.

Tony (19:25.899)
You know, at that time, we were not part, I'm going to define community in a couple of ways here. So at that time, we weren't part of a local body because we, it just, that just where we have been in the religious circles that we have been, you know, we had really come out of a cult. It was a cult, very much cult like environment. So we had come out of that. And so it was like, wait, listen.

Melissa Lapin (19:31.701)
Yeah.

Tony (19:52.67)
our time in Four Walls is up. Like we were kind of home-churchy, but I did have friends, I had friends that, you know, we had a very close-knit community of people that we were homeschoolers, so we were part of a homeschool community. But it wasn't, that wasn't a healthy place for a couple of reasons. It was healthy, but it was a healthy place to vent for a couple of reasons. And I have my close friends.

Melissa Lapin (20:04.92)
Okay. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (20:17.056)
Yeah.

Tony (20:20.286)
And so, but you know, we're trauma bonding in a lot of areas because we all have some things we're going through. So the collective conversations, but I appreciate my friends in that, even though we were, as they call trauma bonding, we were all had the courage to say, okay, now what? Like, get yourself together, like, girl, okay, I'm tripping and they're like, you are. And I'm like, you know, we could call each other out on the floor, we could call each other higher. So we had,

Melissa Lapin (20:26.74)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (20:40.194)
Right?

Melissa Lapin (20:44.564)
Yeah, yeah, the accountability, yeah.

Tony (20:49.966)
community in that regard, in which to help keep us afloat. And you know, it was really helpful for me. And it was out of that place that Wellwater Woman was formed because, get this, I think blogging had just started, it was like a very new thing. And I didn't know anything about it. I didn't follow any blogs. And that guy's like, hey, I want you to blog about your process. And I was like, I'm sorry, what?

And he's like, yeah, I want you to start blogging. And I was like, oh no, I don't want to do that. I don't want anybody to know what we're going through. And like, cause this is personal. And he's like, yeah, I want you to start this blog. And I was like, okay. And so I didn't have a name for anything. And that scripture just kept coming at me. Like, you'll be like a well watered garden out of Isaiah. And it's like, you're a well watered woman.

and you are having encounters at the well. And just like the woman at the well shared with the world, the encounter that she had with me to change their life, this is what you're going to be doing. So I just started blogging and wow, it was so crazy because I'm like, I didn't know anything about blogging. I didn't know a lot of people, I didn't know anything. And all of a sudden people start subscribing to this blog and following this blog.

Melissa Lapin (21:58.7)
Hmm.

Tony (22:16.018)
It was like in the different names that would pop up as a new subscriber were people that I had held in high regard and then private messages that I was getting from women in leadership that I had looked to, right? Like that was like, oh my God, thank you for your transparency. Thank you for your vulnerability. Like pastors wives like that were going through things felt like.

I was a safe place to convey information. And, you know, it went from there, we went into a podcast and all this stuff, a talk show in that the well-watered woman and it just began to grow and explode. And it was like having global reach out of being authentic and transparent. And something happened in 2008 when Las Vegas was the epicenter.

Melissa Lapin (22:55.469)
Hmm.

Tony (23:08.866)
where the housing crisis collapsed. When they exposed like everything in the mortgage industry and we were the epicenter and people begin to lose things left and right. And all of a sudden the community, especially in our homeschool community, where at that time it wasn't safe because these were people that were, you know, making big money, living in big homes and okay, we weren't elitist, but we were

Melissa Lapin (23:11.787)
Mm, yeah.

Melissa Lapin (23:20.524)
Hmm.

Tony (23:39.358)
in some regards, right? And so then now I'm getting calls and texts from people like, how did you survive this? Like, I don't know, like, if I hadn't saw you go through it, then I would have known, not known, that we could go through this. And it's like, they're like, I don't wanna be rude, but are you guys on food stamps? I have to apply for food stamps and Medicaid or medical, I don't know how to do that.

Melissa Lapin (23:46.059)
Hmm.

Melissa Lapin (23:52.961)
Wow.

Tony (24:02.706)
And please don't share this with anybody. Can you help me process this? Like I want to divorce my husband, he lost his job or losing. How did you stay married? So all of those things, so everything that I had gleaned in the well with Jesus, I was able to help other people transition it because he walked with me. That it was, I had a healthy outlook and a healthy viewpoint of it.

Melissa Lapin (24:03.233)
Hmm.

Melissa Lapin (24:14.2)
Wow.

Tony (24:31.442)
so that we weren't victims of our circumstances, that we were victorious in it. And I didn't know that was the beginning and shaping of me walking in victorious theology that led to victorious eschatology. So every lesson in that matter.

Melissa Lapin (24:34.945)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (24:38.7)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (24:48.28)
Come on.

Yeah. And in that story, what I hear too is just not only you coming to the end of yourself, you know, because like the woman at the well, she's like, go get your husband. And she's like, Okay, all right. So obviously, you know, she didn't even acknowledge it. She just she just deflected and turned it right back around on him is obvious you're a prophet. So let's have a real conversation, you know, and

Tony (24:59.566)
Google, yes. Yeah.

Tony (25:13.378)
Yes, yes.

Tony (25:19.012)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (25:20.988)
So I hear, you know, just coming to the end of yourself, just the surrender, you know, where...

Tony (25:27.926)
Yes!

Melissa Lapin (25:32.)
where I think we have a desire to say yes to everything, there comes a point when we actually say yes and mean it. But also a big takeaway in that little part is that it proves, it's a testimony that proves that there is nothing secret in our life and that every decision we make

Tony (25:39.179)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (25:43.03)
Yes, yes.

Tony (25:58.402)
Maybe there is not. Yes. Yes it does.

Melissa Lapin (26:01.42)
touches someone else, whether they ever say anything or not. Like no man is autonomous, period. You might think you're on your own and you're doing whatever and I got my little walls and my boundaries or whatever. People see that and they either wanna beat you or they wanna be away from you. You know? Like nothing we do is hidden. Our lives are not compartmentalized, you know, because like,

Tony (26:08.598)
Yes, yes.

Tony (26:16.61)
Yes, they do.

Thank you. Yes. Yeah.

Tony (26:26.194)
Okay.

Melissa Lapin (26:30.544)
married or unmarried, all the things. Children, no children. Everything we do affects someone. And I love that you made the choices to say, okay, Dr. Tony, you need to, you know, pull yourself up by the bootstraps, put down religion, sit with Jesus, and do this thing. And you did, and people

Tony (26:56.31)
Yep. Yes.

Melissa Lapin (27:00.808)
And it gave them strength, it gave them courage. Cause you said yourself, you thought you were doing it all by yourself, like alone kind of thing. Cause we do, we get in that mentality that we're alone and if I wasn't here, it would be better and all the dumb things that we think. But then people come to us and they're like, can I talk to you? And for me, I'm like, shit, what'd I do?

Tony (27:11.012)
Yes.

Tony (27:15.734)
Right, so dumb. Yep.

Tony (27:22.55)
Yep.

Melissa Lapin (27:25.3)
You know, when I get those kind of crests, I'm like, mm, okay, let me replay every conversation I've had with you just to make sure I'm okay. I don't do that so much anymore. I'm pretty good about it. But you know, I'm not, crow pie is fine. I can clean up a mess if I've made one. You know, but I love that. And I love, love as well, that you were open to engage with people about it.

Tony (27:25.966)
I'm going to go to bed.

Tony (27:34.794)
Yes.

Tony (27:43.854)
Come on now, yep.

Tony (27:54.422)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (27:54.652)
It's because it's one thing to we can be transparent. People put their transparency on Facebook all day long, on social media all day long.

Tony (28:00.832)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (28:04.598)
Oh girl, I wish some of them would stop.

Melissa Lapin (28:07.924)
Yes, but to be vulnerable, vulnerability and transparency are two different things. They are not even on the same coin. And so in your vulnerability, you now have this wonderful ministry where you minister to high level people, you minister to, you know, like upper crust kind of people and your marriage retreats, which, God.

Tony (28:15.461)
Thank you.

Melissa Lapin (28:36.792)
I got the email and I so want to go. I'm like, Scott, what do we got to do? What do we got to sell to be able to go on one of these retreats? We want to go, girl, if you got somebody who wants to scholarship us, we'd be there. But.

Tony (28:43.087)
Y'all gotta come, y'all gotta come.

Tony (28:49.75)
They said somebody want to scholarship them? We need to bring them. Yep.

Melissa Lapin (28:54.828)
If I will take it, no pride in my game. I'll say thank you and go. But you're so giving out of your experiences, but there are people out there that would still continue to stay shut down. They get a little bit of victory, they get a little bit of freedom, you know, but then it's like...

Tony (28:58.722)
Listen, listen, I'm trying to tell you, yes.

Melissa Lapin (29:22.868)
Oh, it was just the Lord. You know, you know, right?

Tony (29:24.954)
Oh my, why was I just thinking that? Why was I just thinking about that? I think what we have done, because we love to glorify testimony. And testimonies are really good, right? But testimonies are only told at the end. And I, and it, oh my, help me, help me, help me. Because that was one of the greatest sources of frustration.

Melissa Lapin (29:35.702)
Mm.

Melissa Lapin (29:40.588)
Hmm.

Tony (29:48.138)
when I was going through the trials that we were going through, and I hate using the word trials because it's like we're not being accused and, you know, convicted of anything other than God's righteousness and goodness in our life. But it was that during that process, right, during those moments of processing, it would frustrate me because I would constantly look for others who had gone through what we were gone through. And we, the only testimonies we could find was

Melissa Lapin (29:56.717)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (30:17.586)
on the other end. And it's like, you don't know what I've been through and God brought me out of this and da da. And it's like, okay, I love that. So it gives me hope for the end, but where are the people that sharing what's going on in the middle? Because there are moments like, I don't want to wait to the end to know God is in it. I don't want to, I need to see where is God now. Is God helping anybody right now? Is he real in the middle? And I think that was the source of fuel for me.

Melissa Lapin (30:19.649)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (30:31.903)
Mmm.

Melissa Lapin (30:41.676)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (30:47.338)
And going through, well, one is that I've always been transparent. I've always been vulnerable. One of those things is because it's this weird thing where I lack the capacity to lie. And much to my... So as kids, I'm the oldest and I have siblings, right? Someone might... You know what? Three sisters and a brother. My brother passed away last year. So he's in...

Melissa Lapin (31:01.992)
My face, I can't even make my face look.

Tony (31:15.794)
and having with the father. But when it was just the three of us, because my youngest two sisters are 14 years younger than us, who were little, if anything would happen, my sister and brother would hate for my mom to ask me because she was saying, you know, they're gonna say, no, it wasn't us, we didn't do it, we don't know what happened. And she's like, Tanya, because I have a whole legal name. And she's like, did this happen? And I'd be like.

And she, to this day, my mom is, I'm 60, so my mom is turning 80. And if anything's going on with my siblings and they may not be wanting to tell her the full story, she calls me and she's like, so what's going on? And I'm like, I don't know. She's like, you have never been able to laugh and I can't. And so it's like my friends tease me because I'm like, I'm the, I'll tell you the truth before you ask for it.

just because it's something in me that doesn't carry the ability to lie, right? So I'm both vulnerable and transparent, and I've been that way all my life. But in that space, like, we can't help anybody if we're hidden. Like, if we can show up and be honest, and that doesn't mean we have to tell the world our whole business.

Melissa Lapin (32:11.285)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (32:17.966)
It's awesome.

Melissa Lapin (32:27.412)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (32:34.828)
Right.

Tony (32:34.998)
But when being transparent and vulnerable, it allows people to have hope in the middle. And we don't always have to believe that we have to wait till the end till we get victory, when we have victory in the middle of this. Cause during the podcast, like people would laugh and I would say like, I know like some of you think I'm doing this podcast.

Melissa Lapin (32:41.558)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (32:46.744)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (32:50.956)
Yeah.

Tony (32:58.21)
from a studio or from some office in a house. No, I am tucked away in my bathroom, in the bathtub, because it has the best acoustics in this one, this is where the space we're in right now. And people would, they would be like, wow, I would have never imagined, because you don't show up. I would never look at you or your family and be like, damn, they're homeless. It's like, we don't have to look like what we're going through.

Melissa Lapin (33:12.962)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (33:24.565)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (33:29.259)
And that's true. Right.

Tony (33:29.474)
But we also don't have to hide it. Cause I want people to know you got the victory in this. I'm as a widow and I know I'm probably talking too much. So just kind of, you know, but as a widow, people, I remember my husband died. I remember God said, you're chasing, you are changing the face of widowhood. People will look at widowhood differently because of how you're going to transform it. So I don't hide the space of being in a engaged or in a space of.

Melissa Lapin (33:34.999)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (33:38.845)
You took... This is all about you, girl.

Melissa Lapin (33:56.024)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (33:59.19)
widowhood because then my testimony is not going to come when I'm blessed with another husband and I'm remarried and I have a testimony of how God kept me all the years and how my heart was broken and it was devastating and destructive but look at me now like no look y'all listen widowhood is hell

Melissa Lapin (34:00.085)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (34:13.503)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (34:17.164)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Tony (34:20.126)
It is hell. It can be hell. And I'm not waiting until I'm on the other side with a new husband to say, but no, let's be honest about it now. Because I also don't want people to have a belief system, like the only way you get over it is to get remarried. No, we got victory in this. So if I never marry again...

Melissa Lapin (34:38.509)
Yeah.

Tony (34:40.738)
best believe I'm not lacking, missing anything. I'm in the fullness of who I am, in the fullness of what God said I could do and who I could be, and it didn't take me marrying somebody else to break free from the stigma.

Melissa Lapin (34:44.34)
Yeah, come on.

Melissa Lapin (34:54.632)
Well, because your identity, the people who have that mentality is their identity is wrapped up in, I am married. And there's a whole gamut of emotional and mental issues that could go, just lack of identity. Why do you have to be married to have identity? It's like you're somebody alone. So.

Tony (35:00.254)
Yes. Yep.

Tony (35:06.315)
Yes.

Tony (35:10.306)
That's it.

Right, right, right.

Tony (35:19.731)
So, yes, so be invulnerable, transparent in your process.

Melissa Lapin (35:24.628)
Oh, I know what I was gonna say. In that, and also the other beauty of that, you're talking about being transparent and vulnerable, like in the process and in the messy middle, as it's called. And is that when we, if we've gone through it, if our life has been a shit show, shall we say, just stuff, one thing after another, we're going through.

Tony (35:25.976)
Yes.

Tony (35:38.135)
I'm kidding.

Tony (35:50.762)
No.

Melissa Lapin (35:53.608)
And not that it is like constant living like that, because if you're constantly living like that, there's probably other issues you need to deal with, but that's a whole nother episode. But, you know, if you've gone through something, whether it's cancer, divorce, death of a spouse, death of a kid, whatever, drug addiction, any trial tribulation, partnering with someone where they are gets them out of it faster.

Tony (36:02.998)
Yep.

Tony (36:14.399)
Yes.

Tony (36:22.454)
Yes!

Melissa Lapin (36:23.336)
You know? I mean, and that's the thing. We're just like, it's not like. Okay, so here's the analogy that I thought of. It's not like we're in a race and we're each, we all, it doesn't, everyone doesn't have to run to the finish line. And then we all get up in the stands and watch everybody else. No, it's like team and we're passing the batons and we're all.

Tony (36:32.632)
Thank you.

Tony (36:39.15)
Mm-mm. That's right.

Tony (36:48.322)
Yes, yes, yes.

Melissa Lapin (36:49.708)
doing the decathlon because some people are high jumping, some people are long jumping, some people are sprinting, some people out there doing a marathon. But we're all in this together and it's like, oh, hey, I did this event before, let me run with you and help you. But we just get so, and again, I think, blame it on the church, I will, there I said it.

Tony (36:56.855)
Yes.

Tony (37:07.162)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (37:14.976)
but we don't the whole community aspect. And if you ask for help, you've got pride or you don't have enough faith. And if someone has a physiological issue where their chemicals are out of balance and they can't function right. And they're looked down upon because they get some prescription drugs so that they can get mentally right. Because I firmly believe

Tony (37:41.815)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (37:43.608)
God created doctors. God created pharmacists and people who know the body's chemical makeup. But all of these things are looked down. You just need to believe harder. You just need to have faith that that's going wrong. There must be some sin in your life. So it's no wonder that we do not know how to go, somebody help me.

Tony (37:46.394)
Yes.

Tony (37:52.04)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (38:09.526)
Right, right, yes.

Melissa Lapin (38:09.652)
You know, we don't know how we can't even be honest with ourself. I mean, like you said it, you know, God got in your face was like, you don't know me and you're like, but God, check, check. I did all these things.

Tony (38:23.646)
It is, it curates, I think, a culture of lies. And we don't want to call it lies, but it is lies because it leads people into a false lifestyle and lifestyles of pretension. And this like the things that God is trying to do that we're trying to keep hidden. So it's a tussle. And I think, I don't want to be emotional about this but I think we have led.

Melissa Lapin (38:28.054)
Absolutely.

Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (38:45.322)
Uh huh.

Tony (38:49.486)
people in the church to thinking them, God only loves the Sunday version of you. And because we believe that's the version that God loves, loves about us, that we hide the everyday person that we are because we think God will love that person. We think that God will love the person that's struggling with anxiety or depression.

Melissa Lapin (38:54.892)
Uh huh.

Melissa Lapin (39:03.39)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (39:12.158)
Yeah.

Tony (39:13.49)
or panic or sickness or financial devastation or grief. So we wanna keep showing, because we feel like we have to show up like that at church, we believe we have to keep showing up like that for God.

Melissa Lapin (39:18.316)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (39:25.42)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (39:28.749)
Yeah.

Tony (39:28.926)
And we created an illusion that keeps people behind a veil that Jesus tore so it's no longer a veil. And it's nothing that separates the natural and the spirit. And we're one with him and we flow out of union, but we're like the garden where we keep plucking all these freaking religious leaves to make clothes that cover ourself to present ourself to a God.

Melissa Lapin (39:33.644)
Yeah.

Tony (39:54.37)
who sees us not as naked and ashamed, but sees us as whole. And listen, I have worked with people, walked with people who feel like it is, like, you know, I don't know if I take this medicine, like, you know, gotten inside, baby, listen, like if I had cancer and I'm all for natural processes, I am 100% for it. But if at this moment, chemotherapy as much as I hate it is what's needed.

Melissa Lapin (39:58.761)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (40:16.489)
Uh huh.

Tony (40:24.086)
in order to help me save and preserve my life, I would be lacking wisdom. If I was, you know, and it's like, so wisdom is medicine. I said modern medicine, I'm a firm believer in modern medicine, modern medicine. And are there downsides to it? Is there corruption with big pharma? Hell yeah.

Melissa Lapin (40:29.257)
Yeah.

Tony (40:44.694)
But guess what? There's corruption in the church. There's corruption everywhere. But we have to have discernment so that we can see what's right and what's good and what we need in the moment. And we can exercise that, right? But a lot of the medical treatments and things that we have access to right now are answers to prayers from hundreds of years ago when people were praying that one day there will be a cure.

Melissa Lapin (40:47.916)
Come on. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (40:55.901)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (41:07.037)
Yes.

Tony (41:11.854)
for the flu. One day there'll be a cure for cancer so no one else would have to die from this. And these are modern medicines and some people need medicine. Like I'll be looking at people like, you know, you need to take your pill. Take the red and the blue. Like, and do you want a green one too? Like you really need to be on that, be on medication. And that doesn't mean you'll have to be on it forever. But we cannot demonize people.

Melissa Lapin (41:13.098)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (41:18.069)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (41:22.476)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (41:26.379)
Right?

Melissa Lapin (41:29.696)
Right? Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (41:36.487)
Exactly.

Yeah, and we do, the church does. When we counseled, when I was on a counseling team, like when people would come in for stuff, that major question on the application, are you on medications? What medications are you on? And people would come in and not answer that question and then come to find out halfway into the session.

Tony (41:42.142)
Yes, very much so.

Tony (41:58.467)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (42:09.912)
they're on some kind of medication and we're like, oh, that's why you're feel like, you look like you're drunk right now, you know, because of the side effect of this medication. But on the other hand too, like, we all understand that our American diet is garbage and the chemicals that we have and those chemicals that are in those animals and we eat those animals, hello, they're in us too, right?

Tony (42:17.014)
Yes, yes, yes.

Tony (42:35.862)
Yep.

Melissa Lapin (42:37.82)
And so our whole systems are out of whack. So if someone needs that balance of a little antidepressant so that they can get out of the pit just enough to hear the good news, then why would we not let them have it? Like I said, we demonize the people like they don't have enough faith. Oh, so frustrating. So frustrating.

Tony (42:51.534)
Come on now, yes.

Tony (42:57.07)
Bye.

Tony (43:00.982)
Yes, yes. It's sad. I preached a message one time, I was in Oklahoma at a conference. And it was, it was kind of a little bit kind of, you know, because it was, you know, it was a deliverance specific kind of ministry or whatever. And I'm like, first of all, you ain't been delivered to, you've been delivered from yourself in your faith,

Melissa Lapin (43:23.457)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (43:29.496)
Come on. That's a whole nother conference.

Tony (43:31.802)
But we want to deliver everyone else, right? But it's like, I remember getting up and it was like the thing that I felt like I needed to share is that we have to stop demonizing people's pain. Because if we're going to have altars in our houses of worship, we have a responsibility to ensure that the altars are a safe place. Because if people need prayer and they want you to partner in prayer with them for issues that they're facing,

Melissa Lapin (43:41.353)
Mmmm

Tony (44:01.014)
they have to have confidence in that thing that I'm coming up here to pray. Like if I, like pray for that one, you're gonna actually be partnering with me in agreement and believing God to move or reveal to me or whatever needs to be done in this moment and that it doesn't go anywhere else. So when I leave the altar, you're not going to be going back and saying, girl, you know, she had five husbands and the one she ain't on now, you better watch your husband, you know,

Melissa Lapin (44:03.34)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (44:20.851)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (44:26.819)
Uh huh.

This is a prayer. Let me share this prayer request with you.

Tony (44:34.626)
I'm concerned. So we all need to pray, right? And then when people are going through things and we look at them, because we can be really bad about this, and this isn't to highlight this.

Melissa Lapin (44:36.596)
Right? Yeah.

Tony (44:47.922)
all the negative because we're, I'm sharing this. So with your audience, so that we can highlight the positive, right? And so you have a girl, maybe she has done some things in her lifestyle, in her lifetime, or engaged in a lifestyle that is not God's best for her. But do we know what led her to the lifestyle? Do you understand things that have happened to her?

Melissa Lapin (45:07.134)
Yeah.

Tony (45:10.094)
from childhood, she suffered abuses and things. So we overhear like, oh, she in the thought ministry, she just this is, and we've demonized her pain. And now we're saying, oh, she need to deliver some spirit of love. She need to deliver some spirit of whatever. And it's like, no, she needs to know that Jesus loves her and he doesn't see her as broken, he sees her as whole and that she is healed and she can be healed. And we walk with her in this process to her

Melissa Lapin (45:18.857)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (45:32.79)
Mmm.

Tony (45:39.49)
gain her identity and if she gains identity, she'll gain authority, which means she can reign in power and she walks as an overcomer. But if we're shaming and condemning and we demonize everyone's pain, there's a guy that I know, this is funny. I guess he had like went to a ministry and you know, they were doing prayer and he was asked the question like, have you ever looked at porn? And he was like,

Melissa Lapin (45:41.237)
Yeah, come on.

Melissa Lapin (45:46.86)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (45:52.083)
Yeah.

Tony (46:08.114)
18 or something and he's like, well, yeah, he's like, I've looked at it before. I've seen it. And he literally said, and it was one time and he, and they said, well, you got a spirit of lust and that's what, and he spent 12 years of his life constantly going to the altar, asking for prayer, trying to be delivered from a spirit of lust. And it's like, you're an 18 year old man.

Melissa Lapin (46:10.772)
Yeah, half the commercials on TV. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (46:23.005)
Mmm. God, I hate that.

Melissa Lapin (46:31.132)
Ah.

Melissa Lapin (46:37.257)
That's so gross.

Tony (46:38.414)
who is very healthy, you're gonna have some thoughts, things may happen, your body might respond. This is a natural physical thing that's taking place that has nothing to do with lust. And because someone has told you that, and you believe it, and now it's like you feel tainted, you feel shame.

Melissa Lapin (46:44.073)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (46:56.241)
Mm-hmm.

Come on, I know it's so gross. Oh, it's awful.

Tony (46:59.534)
What are we doing?

We have to be able to see things in the lens of truth that bring people into freedom instead of bondage. And that's why I love the kingdom because we're bringing you into freedom. And I don't even necessarily know if we're bringing you into freedom as much as we are creating atmospheres and spaces and rooms where you have an awareness.

Melissa Lapin (47:09.59)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (47:12.919)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (47:31.912)
Yeah. And I think that's more so, you know, when we...

Tony (47:31.926)
that you are free and you want to do it. Yes.

Melissa Lapin (47:40.876)
want to say hold up a mirror, you know, but maybe we do. And I've actually done some prophetic activations where I've given, you know, in small groups, like 4050 people given everybody a mirror, you know, and hold it up and let's talk to this person, you know, and like some people can't even do it, you would be surprised. And I was a personal trainer for

Tony (47:44.268)
Yeah.

Tony (48:01.174)
Yes!

Melissa Lapin (48:10.812)
like flexing in front of the mirrors and stuff, but you ask them to get close to the mirror and look themselves in the eye and they can't do it because they want this facade. They want this, you know? And that's the big thing with After the Well and what I'm creating because this podcast is just the tip of the iceberg for what I want to do. I'm actually in the works of creating retreats. So yes, I will be contacting you.

Tony (48:21.474)
Yes, yes, yes.

Tony (48:33.09)
Yeah!

Melissa Lapin (48:40.488)
Um, because it's time I've been, you know, helped out with some before and I've spoken a couple, but I, I want to, I want to do just well encounters. I want to create safe space where people can truly, truly go back and say, Hey, come see this guy, Jesus. He, he, he sees me.

Tony (48:55.368)
Yes.

Tony (49:05.902)
Come on, come on, yes.

Melissa Lapin (49:09.672)
And he still gets me. He gets us. Too soon, anybody? But he does get us. And so, yeah. I had a question a second ago and it left me. So, okay, so here, let's, because we have a few more minutes, which we don't really have a time, but I wanna kinda narrow it down a little bit. But...

Tony (49:11.426)
Yes.

Tony (49:15.102)
And he really does get to us any way he wants to see us. So.

Tony (49:32.811)
Yes.

Melissa Lapin (49:39.86)
what are one, two, three, four things that you could really pinpoint that helps people look in the mirror, that helps people, you know, because I love the mirror translation and like as we see Jesus, what encouragement or, and I think we'll land with this, however long the landing takes, you know, we'll circle the airport if we need to.

Tony (50:05.038)
Oh, yeah. Uh-oh.

Melissa Lapin (50:08.996)
what encouragement would you give to listeners that would help them be okay, A, coming to the well, hearing what they hear, being okay with what they hear, and then maybe a next step? I know that was a lot.

Tony (50:18.819)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (50:28.562)
No, it's not a lot. One of the things that one of the things I believe or think prevents people from going to the well is a mirror, right? We've been looking like it's like having a mirror and I just put it away. I don't have right here. I have a mirror that's broken and cracked and so sometimes we look at that and it has a distorted view of who we are.

Melissa Lapin (50:47.266)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (50:51.128)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (50:53.31)
And somewhere along the line, we believe the lie that this distorted image is our identity. And so it's like, are you willing? One of the questions I like to ask is, are you willing to exchange the brokenness, the lie of the broken image for the truth of the beautiful image?

Because the broken is not how the father sees us and how he's never seen us. The truth is in the whole image that he's only and always seen us as whole. And he's only and always seen us as loved. And then, because I'm a, I'm a roots and fruits kind of girl sometimes. It's like that the root of that, there's a lie that we are possibly believing about the father, right? And you see.

If we get that lie, then it kills. If we could get the root, we get the fruit. It stops the fruit. I ask people this all the time because they cannot accept like this is how God sees me. This is what he believes about me. And I often ask this question, what is it that is inside of your heart right now that is making you believe that this is how

Melissa Lapin (51:57.93)
Right.

Tony (52:22.102)
the God of love who is love, whose plans for your life are good always and only, who's never been disappointed in you a day in your life, who only sees you in his image because you were made in his image, you came from him. And as Jesus was expressed nature of God's character, so are you. But what is the one place in your heart

that would make you believe that this God will want to believe anything other than what he knows is true about you. And using people pause right there because we have to think about that. Like God, why do I believe that this is what you would want to believe about me?

Tony (53:15.63)
and has not as religion, but has there ever been a moment in your life, in any encounter that you've had with God, that you've had with love, because if you've encountered love, you've encountered the Father, that has made you feel the way the lie, the distorted image has made you feel.

And almost always the answer is no.

Melissa Lapin (53:46.37)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (53:47.898)
So would you be willing to put this down to take this up? And even if you can only look at it for a moment at a time, we get a glance of it. Let's just look at, look at, you don't gotta look at the whole image. Just look at the eyes. Do you know you have your father's eyes?

It begins to change.

Melissa Lapin (54:18.473)
Yeah.

Tony (54:19.966)
and we bring him into spaces, we invite you into spaces to begin to look at it piece by piece. Let's look at, hold your hands to the mirror. Do you know you have your father's hands? And his hands are full of love and compassion and how he shaped and molded the world and you included. So we begin to look at what's in our hands differently.

Melissa Lapin (54:31.981)
Hmm.

Tony (54:47.585)
Do you know you have your father's heart?

Melissa Lapin (54:51.939)
Bye.

Tony (54:53.154)
You can trust your heart, it's not deceitfully wicked, because we have a new heart.

And what's flowing out of your heart? Love. So they can begin to love different. And we love ourselves. Because we love others as we love ourselves. So the mirror is can we love ourselves so that we are loving others but not from the outside in or from inside out. So we begin to take we can take you through steps.

Melissa Lapin (55:22.143)
Right.

Tony (55:28.038)
and offer solutions, but it almost always starts with a question.

Melissa Lapin (55:34.536)
You know, we have not because we ask not. So, we have to be willing to ask, okay, God, why, what am I believing right now? Why do I feel this way? Yeah.

Tony (55:39.001)
Yes.

Tony (55:45.442)
guess.

and ask the question, God, what's the truth that you want me to know about you? And what's the truth that you want me to know about how you feel about me?

Melissa Lapin (55:52.748)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (56:01.872)
So good, so good. What, as we close out, what would be some advice that you'd wanna leave? What some nugget that you'd wanna leave with? Give them a bucket of water from your well. Not just a cup, give them a bucket.

Tony (56:23.735)
Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. One is that I just think it's one of the things that's on my heart always is for people to know that they are seen, that they're known, and they are loved. Because I think when you know that you are seeing your known your loved and sometimes even when you feel alone and you said this.

you know earlier, it's like people are watching. They're watching your lives, even when you don't know it. Your life is constantly making an impact on somebody. And even if, and people know, people know, people see, even if they don't say anything, they're watching. So there's nothing that you're doing that is of good fruit, of good measure. Even if nobody offers you praise for it, it matters. It matters.

Melissa Lapin (56:53.694)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (56:58.476)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (57:18.386)
Sometimes it might be just in your home with your kids. Sometimes like if you're a stay at home mom or your housewife, you feel like what you're doing doesn't matter because you wanna be desperately out there changing the world. But it's your babies that are watching you, that are seeing how you respond or react, that are seeing how you love them. They're attentive to the words that you're speaking over them.

Melissa Lapin (57:31.256)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (57:35.041)
Yeah.

Tony (57:47.874)
because they won't be babies forever. At some point they'll be an adult. And there's things that you're gonna say to them that'll be the catalyst for who they become. Because you're changing the world through them. I have four amazing kids. And if you've ever met my kids, you know I'm just not blowing smoke. And I'm just not a mom, my kids are all amazing and awesome. And I look at them and...

Melissa Lapin (57:50.195)
Right.

Tony (58:13.074)
It's like, wow, this is what we produce in the middle of the horrible years that were difficult and challenging. Because we are open and transparent, they got to see God and encounter Him for the truth of who He was, which established Him in my kids are world changers. Listen, there's nothing that you're going through or you've gone through.

Melissa Lapin (58:15.68)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (58:29.055)
Yeah.

Tony (58:38.09)
If he's making work cause on everything to work out for your good He is whether it's the good stuff or they're not as pleasant stuff. Well, my son with the college you went to a Bible school Bible college and He you know They were having to write papers and then give a talk on something and he chose a topic

Melissa Lapin (58:42.892)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (59:00.446)
It was like part of the evangelism kind of thing. And he, everybody's figured out how they can evangelize people. And his topic was different from anybody else's and any that they'd heard. He talked on reaching the hidden homeless. And because there's hidden homeless around us every day, but because they go to work with us every day, they go to school with us every day.

Melissa Lapin (59:12.891)
Mm.

Melissa Lapin (59:19.136)
Mmmm

Tony (59:20.718)
They go to church with us every day. We have no idea what people are going through. And he presents this like how Jesus loves and he's like in having an awareness and engaging with Holy Spirit to know people for where they are and who they are. And he said, because I'm in college and you all would not know this, you know, we go visit him once a month. He said, but you have no idea that while I'm here in college that my mom and dad are my siblings at home.

are living in a one bedroom transitional living hotel. We don't have a house. Like you don't know that I've spent the last like five years of my life. Like I didn't grow up in a house like you. I grew up in a hotel where, and different things and no one in our church. Like it's like we just assume everyone and it struck them in such a way that this particular denomination wanted to write within a program.

Melissa Lapin (59:53.84)
Mmm.

Tony (01:00:19.382)
to establish in each of their churches on how to identify and reach. God made it something good. So all of them are world changers. So sometimes when it feels like you're not making an impact, people are watching. And they're learning and they're growing and they're identifying the Jesus in you. They see the Father in you.

Melissa Lapin (01:00:22.484)
Wow.

Melissa Lapin (01:00:26.456)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (01:00:37.506)
Yeah.

Tony (01:00:45.146)
And it's like, and it's this beautiful thing that we're on display and we get to see, that the world gets to see. So I encourage you, shine where you are. Be vulnerable. Be okay with being transparent. Be okay. If you're going through a tough time, you know what I say, this sucks. But in the middle of the sucky parts,

Melissa Lapin (01:00:45.151)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:00:56.347)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:00:59.969)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (01:01:13.322)
He's right there with us and he's like holding the straw, like small sips, small sips. But you are so loved and you're so known and you're so seen and you are world changers, you're system transformers.

Melissa Lapin (01:01:14.957)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (01:01:29.24)
Come on, come on.

Tony (01:01:30.946)
You have all access. You are the expressed image of the Father's heart on the earth. And you are good being you. You are good being you. You're not broken. You're not damp. You're good. Y'all are awesome. And you have an invitation from the Father to show up as such.

Melissa Lapin (01:01:43.582)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:01:50.774)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:01:54.164)
And that's the key right there is just to be you. Because the whole time I'm thinking or listening to you, I'm thinking, I know there are people out there going, but, dot, but I didn't go to college, but I'm divorced, but this, but that, and I'm just gonna put it out there. Stop believing the lie.

Stop believing the lie that you're less than anyone else because someone in the church says you can't because you didn't go to seminary, that you didn't go to theology school, that you didn't do this, you didn't do that because you quote are not called to the office of prophet or called to the office of teacher. That's a bunch of religious BS and I encourage you to stop believing it. If you can't figure out how to do that.

contact me or Dr. Tony and we'll help you.

Tony (01:02:55.338)
listen, I'm gonna help you right now. We're gonna help you right now. Cause I hear the buts, I hear them all the time. We all have them, we all have at least one, right? So what I would encourage you to do, what I would admonish you to do, what I would challenge you to do is when we have all those buts, get up, wipe your butt, put your big boy, big girl panties on and put on your authority that you have been given in Christ.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:01.8)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:16.361)
I'm out.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:23.096)
Come on.

Tony (01:03:24.85)
and get to stepping. Let me tell you something, I've got all the butts in the world. Listen, I do. We got all the butts in the world. And we think that we look at people, see where they are today, and we don't realize that I wasn't always who I am today. Like we had to, you weren't who you, so none of us, right, none of us are where we are today.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:26.518)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:41.328)
Me neither. I have worked hard.

Tony (01:03:48.514)
We weren't, I wasn't the same person eight years ago. Eight years ago this month, my husband was alive and he died eight years ago this month. So I was a wife before then. I was this before then. And we have the, like, I didn't go to college. I didn't have a degree. Well, I went to college and I didn't get a degree because I made some decisions that weren't probably the best. No, like, who, I made it just like, let me tell you something.

Melissa Lapin (01:03:55.512)
Mm.

Tony (01:04:14.41)
We weren't talking about making decisions that aren't the best decisions. I was in my senior year of college. I was going to school to be a lawyer and I had this revelation that I was called to do here and I wanted to be a hairstylist. Left college in for Christmas break and didn't return the last semester of my senior year, double majoring.

Melissa Lapin (01:04:36.973)
Wow.

Tony (01:04:37.046)
in psychiatry, so not psychiatry, but I wanted to be a psychologist. I really wanted to be, you know, attorney. So I was double majoring in psychology and criminal justice with a minor in sociology and human relationships because I'm also an overachiever. And my parents were so proud. We would have the first lawyer in the family. And I loved all those things because I love criminal justice and I love human relationship. And I wanted to do all the things.

But then I loved doing hair, so left school to do hair and then couldn't do hair because I'm allergic to chemicals that are found in salons. So it took me over a year to finish beauty school because I was suffering migraines and my parents is like, so this what you left school for? Right, you know. So anyway, then went on to do some other things and went into education and all the stuff. And when my husband died, I thought, oh my gosh, what am I gonna do now?

Melissa Lapin (01:05:12.972)
Wow.

Melissa Lapin (01:05:21.873)
Mm.

Melissa Lapin (01:05:33.505)
Mm.

Tony (01:05:33.606)
I just started a little life coaching business and I was basically kind of playing with it to get it to grow because he was a primary bread earner at that time. We had just come out of the season of horror that we were in and we were starting to make traction and all this stuff and he died. And it was like, oh my God, now I got to go to work. Now I got to really build a business because I'm not, I just was like, I want to work at Walmart.

But Walmart, I'm not made to work at Walmart. And I'm gonna tell you this, why I'm not made to work at Walmart. Not because Walmart is a lowly position, but because of who I am, we wouldn't have any employees. Because I'm constantly calling out the golden people. And that's why, like my friends tease me when I say, it's hard, I'm getting a job. And they say, you wanna get fired. Cause the company's gonna lose money because you're gonna be in there telling everybody, why are you here?

Melissa Lapin (01:06:13.686)
Yeah.

Tony (01:06:27.774)
you know, do you know you carry this gifting? Do you know that you're made and everybody's gonna be leaving the job to pursue who they are and the door gonna close down. And then I'm telling the workers like, why are you, the people coming in, why are you here? And so I know, so anyway, I had to work a business. And my thought was, I need to go to school. And he go back to school and guys like, you don't have time to go to school. And I'm like.

Melissa Lapin (01:06:31.093)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:06:35.852)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:06:45.185)
Hehehehe

Tony (01:06:53.554)
I had to get out of now I got to go get a degree because now like it's 2016, 28, 17, he died 2016. No one's going to hire me. I'm old. I'm 52. I don't have a degree. I've been a stay at home, stay at home, homeschool a mom and all the lies. Right. But this, but this, but that it's like, you don't have time to go to school. So I said, well, I'm going to go to life coaching school because I need to have something he's like, you don't have time for that. I'm like, you're not listening to me, Linda.

Melissa Lapin (01:07:11.565)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (01:07:22.806)
Linda, and he was like, you don't have time. It's not for you. But because I felt like, but, hear me by the but, I felt like I need to do something. I made an investment to go to life coaching school. And I realized that I was doing everything, the polar opposite of what you're supposed to do as a life coach. But what I was doing was working. And I'll never forget when we had to do a case study and our...

Melissa Lapin (01:07:23.107)
Right?

Melissa Lapin (01:07:30.264)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:07:41.217)
Hmm.

Tony (01:07:50.414)
are, you know, the person that's over this school, they presented a case and I perceive prophetically, oh, this isn't made up, this is actually her life and the root of it is the relationship she's had, issues is the one she's having with her mom and it's a mom wound and all. So everyone had their little turn to, and I'm seeing all this and I'm like, can, you know.

Ask who I said can't the stop. Can I just say this? Can I just offer you this? She's like, okay, and I just give this up. She is weeping and crying and she's like, oh my god like how did you do this? Like how did you know this and I'm like So and she's like is this what you do with your clients? I'm like, she said forget everything I've said don't stop doing that and It became like a

Melissa Lapin (01:08:24.032)
Ha ha.

Melissa Lapin (01:08:39.856)
Hmm.

Tony (01:08:43.07)
I became like a spiritual mom in her life. So God was like, I told you, you was the, cause you're not even using that. But fast forward a few months and I got a letter in the mail from an organization that said, hey, we have been watching your life for the last seven years. And they had documented some things and we love what you're doing and how you serve people and how you're giving and all the stuff.

Melissa Lapin (01:09:05.762)
Hmm.

Tony (01:09:13.214)
And we want to convert the honorary doctorate's degree in the area for humanity, philosophy and humanities on your life. And they're having this ceremony and you invited me to come to it. And that's how I became Dr. Toni Robinson. In the midst of all my butts, but I need to get a job. And guys like, you know, you will ruin somebody's company, but I need to go to school. You don't have time to go to school because what I need for you to do, you need to be,

Melissa Lapin (01:09:17.888)
Hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:09:31.387)
Hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:09:37.848)
Thanks for watching!

Yeah.

Tony (01:09:42.934)
but I need to get this, but you don't, but all the butts. And at the end of the day, I had to wipe my butt, put my big girl panties on, stand up and say, okay, Jesus, here I am in all of what I believe I don't have, ready to step into all that I know that you have. And we about to go on a ride. I have a feeling it's a wild ride. I don't know, I can trust you. I don't know if I could trust the ride.

Melissa Lapin (01:10:02.526)
Yeah.

Tony (01:10:11.158)
but I'ma buckle my ass in and I'ma hold on for dear life and we're going for it. And you know what I found? He has opened doors and moved in ways that no other degree, no anything else could have done because he had a plan. So now what I say, I don't say but I, but I can't, but I don't, but I say, but God.

Melissa Lapin (01:10:13.112)
Hmm

Melissa Lapin (01:10:26.045)
Come on. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:10:37.599)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (01:10:39.65)
So, let's come.

Melissa Lapin (01:10:40.224)
So good. So good. So y'all just heard it. You got a little tongue lashing from Mama Tony here. No, no, it's a reality check for people. Because if anybody has any excuse after that little pep talk, call us. You know, I had a girlfriend, she would say, she would, because I'm like that.

Tony (01:10:49.055)
Was that harsh? Was that being too harsh?

Who?

Melissa Lapin (01:11:09.836)
back when the saying got popular, it's like, how's that working out for you, right? You know, I say that a lot. And I would say that and she's like, all right, let me put my Melissa panties on and I'm just gonna go to the thing. Because I was like, you got, there is always going to be an excuse to not. Always, always. You can find any excuse to not do something and we've gotta stop, we've gotta stop. And so,

Tony (01:11:14.466)
Yep.

Tony (01:11:22.823)
I mean, we have to!

Tony (01:11:28.278)
Yes, there is. Yep.

Tony (01:11:35.274)
Mm-hmm. Yep. The woman at the well had five excuses as to why she was not, and a sixth one that wasn't her own. So there's always going to be excuse, but we get to rise above the excuse because excuses are what victims give out. We're victorious people. I always say this. We're not orphans. We have a father.

Melissa Lapin (01:11:42.869)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:11:47.596)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:11:55.852)
Come on. Yep.

Tony (01:12:03.938)
We have a really good, good father who has a plan for our life. Orphans come with problems. Sons come with solutions. So if you're a literal orphan that doesn't have a mom and a dad, I'm not meaning you literally, but I mean as an orphan mindset where we pretend that we don't have a good, good father or we don't know we have a good father. So we're always going to have a problem, which is an excuse why we can't do the next thing.

Melissa Lapin (01:12:11.937)
Mmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:12:24.369)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:12:30.391)
Yeah.

Tony (01:12:33.654)
But when we rise up in sonship, we come with solutions. That change is not just our lives, but the world.

Melissa Lapin (01:12:37.92)
Come on, come on. Yup, yup, and that's so good. And that solution just could be, what's your menu for the week at home? Make yourself available and just trust God that he sees you, he knows you, he loves you. He's got the best for you. There's no buts involved. It's just, okay, God, what are we doing today?

and you do the thing that he puts in front of you without thinking that you lack anything or that you have to achieve everything. You just do the thing before you because it wasn't my goal to sit down here and have a podcast. You know, it's like Dr. Tony said, you know, she didn't achieve to do all of these things and hang out on islands with married couples and go snorkeling and do those things. I know you don't snorkel, but you wash from the boat.

Tony (01:13:17.634)
Right, right, yeah. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:13:37.344)
but oh you did? Okay, you just must not have in that video. You're just like, I didn't snorkel today. So.

Tony (01:13:38.333)
I do snorkel.

Tony (01:13:43.85)
I didn't snorkel that day that they went out, the guys went out, but later on in the week I did go. We snorkel just enough, yeah, but I do enjoy it.

Melissa Lapin (01:13:48.64)
Okay. Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:13:53.02)
Yeah, you know, so it's like we get all these, I don't know, we just get so distracted by all the things on the outside instead of getting a hold of what's on the inside. And that's one relationship only with Elohim, which is plural, by the way, you know? So God...

Tony (01:14:04.558)
Mm-hmm.

Tony (01:14:10.966)
Yes.

Tony (01:14:16.386)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:14:22.812)
and Jesus and Holy Spirit. A. They're the only relationship we need to be worried about. And then only believe what they say. And if it does not line up, if it's not good, it's not God. If it does not line up with anything that God has told you, not what somebody else has told you. Because we go back to the woman of the well, I have never ever heard a message that was positive

Tony (01:14:28.887)
Yes.

Tony (01:14:34.07)
Yes, yes.

Tony (01:14:41.421)
Come on.

Melissa Lapin (01:14:52.832)
They say she was shamed and she was going to the well at noon. Girlfriend could have been a clothes washer and that was her third trip to the well that day. I mean, come on.

Tony (01:15:02.07)
We don't know. And even the husband aspect, you know, in that culture, just being engaged, you were considered married. That was considered your husband. Joseph and Mary hadn't been officially married yet, but Joseph wanted to quietly divorce her, put her away. Maybe she had three husbands and two fiancés that called the...

Melissa Lapin (01:15:12.737)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:15:21.656)
Uh huh.

Tony (01:15:26.778)
They called it off. And that would be considered a divorce. They, you know, she lost her husband, her husband went, well, how do we know there was a couple of men who died? We don't know people's stories. So we don't have the right to begin to create narratives around them to satisfy our needs.

Melissa Lapin (01:15:28.024)
Mm-hmm.

Melissa Lapin (01:15:34.686)
Right?

Nothing, nothing.

Melissa Lapin (01:15:42.388)
Right, right, right. So don't believe what people are saying about you unless they're telling you you're awesome. So girl, you know, you and I could talk all afternoon, probably, I'm sure we got a lifetime of stories and experiences, I think just cause we see life for what it is and we see God for who he is and how the two just go together and there's no other

Tony (01:15:50.946)
Thank it, because that's the truth. Yep.

Hahaha!

Tony (01:16:00.415)
Yeah.

Melissa Lapin (01:16:12.864)
There's no other way to tell our stories without getting God all up in it. So I am very thankful for you coming on here. So I appreciate it so much. Yeah, it was really, really good. Where can you be found? Like I know you have, we didn't, let's touch on that. You have Master Dream Academy, right?

Tony (01:16:15.918)
online.

Come on now. Yeah.

Tony (01:16:24.786)
Thank you for having me. Yes.

Tony (01:16:34.796)
Hehehehe

Tony (01:16:39.538)
I do, yes.

Melissa Lapin (01:16:40.636)
And is that the only.com you have?

Tony (01:16:44.174)
I bet, no, it's not, but it is the best place to find me right now is a mast and you could see, get, you know, kind of it's subscribed to our email list and kind of, you know, look around there. We may have something that you're interested in. We have some retreats, we have services and different things like that. And then you can always find me on social media, Instagram, Facebook, Dr. Toni Robinson. Yep.

Melissa Lapin (01:16:47.644)
Okay.

Melissa Lapin (01:17:11.928)
Okay, awesome. And all of those will be in the show notes for anyone who is interested in connecting and following Dr. Toni, which I think you will be highly blessed if you do. There's a lot of good stuff that she puts out and opportunities for retreats. Yeah, yeah, just go live who you are. That's all I can end with is just.

Tony (01:17:23.086)
I'm gonna go.

Melissa Lapin (01:17:38.56)
Just do it. Just do life. The best you know how. Start where you're at. Find somebody to partner with and do it. Let somebody take your hand. You're not alone because I guarantee you whatever you're going through, out of 8 billion people on this planet and you think you're the only one going through it, you might have to have to talk about that. Thanks for listening to After the Well to this podcast episode. If this is your first time, please

Tony (01:17:42.382)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Tony (01:17:55.048)
Mm.

Melissa Lapin (01:18:05.612)
Thank you for joining us. I really hope you enjoyed it. I'm glad you found us. Give us some feedback. Share us with a friend if you enjoyed it. If this is not your first time, thanks for coming back. Again, like us, love us on the socials, and give us some feedback. It helps us stay up in the algorithm of podcasts that are awesome. I'm not trying to compete with Joe Rogan, but you know, I want to be above the last guy.

Tony (01:18:34.278)
Come on now. Yes.

Melissa Lapin (01:18:35.82)
And I got, I got, God and I got things to do. So given some feedback and some, just let me know, maybe a guest that you'd like to have on the show and like to hear and let me hang out with them. I would love to connect that way. Again, any way to connect with Dr. Tony or myself will be put in the show notes and you can follow the dot coms and the at signs and all the things to get, hopefully to get you further.

Tony (01:18:39.362)
That's right. Yep.

Melissa Lapin (01:19:04.8)
down the road in your journey so that you're not stuck in the messy middle too long. So thanks again Dr. Tony.

Tony (01:19:09.57)
That's right.

Tony (01:19:13.666)
Thank you, I have enjoyed my time with you.

Melissa Lapin (01:19:18.016)
All right, bye-bye everybody.

ATW - Chat with Dr. Tony Robinson

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