Melissa Lapin (00:09.481)
Hey everybody, welcome to this episode of After the Well. My name's Melissa and I'm really glad you joined me. And today I'm kind of scared to have this guest on my podcast.
No, it's my friend Kathleen and I've been trying to get her on here for like, I don't know, a year maybe? And she finally, uh... huh?
Kathleen Irey (00:31.278)
I think so. I said, I think so, yeah. Yeah, yeah. A little bit, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (00:35.505)
Yeah, yeah, close, probably at least eight, nine months. We were in a mentoring group together. Yeah, Kingdom Leadership Matrix for a little over a year and hung out, hung out, almost weekly, doing a weekly Zoom call and getting to know each other with a couple other people and just having fun and cutting up and.
Kathleen Irey (00:52.462)
Thank you.
Kathleen Irey (01:01.63)
And now we have a meshing tattoo.
Melissa Lapin (01:04.669)
We do, we have bro tats.
Kathleen Irey (01:06.935)
You
that we will forever be best friends.
Melissa Lapin (01:10.117)
Love it. Yes, yes. Love you, Bethany.
Kathleen Irey (01:14.39)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:19.413)
Y'all have to watch the video for that one. You can't make a little heart. Or just do the Asian heart, the Japanese. Just your thumb and finger.
Kathleen Irey (01:19.638)
suck at this. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:30.99)
It's the middle finger now.
Melissa Lapin (01:35.194)
Yeah. Anyway, you're throwing gang symbols. That's not even a heart.
Kathleen Irey (01:36.126)
Mine just, I... Anyway.
Melissa Lapin (01:44.533)
So anyway.
Kathleen Irey (01:45.314)
I grew up in Southern California, man. They're everywhere. Oh yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:48.241)
Oh, got those gang signals, huh? So, no, I wanted Kathleen to come on here because I love her story. I love her, I don't know. I just love, I just, I love you, Katie, Kathleen. You are amazing. I wanna be you when I grow up, you and your Stanley Cup drinking self.
Kathleen Irey (02:00.558)
I mean, I'm pretty amazing. It's pretty obvious.
Kathleen Irey (02:13.038)
I know, everybody does, it's okay.
Melissa Lapin (02:13.077)
So seriously, I know there's a line of Katie wannabes. So now, all right, so let's kind of start and we'll see where God wants to take the conversation, because y'all, you know you and I can talk about all kinds of random crap, but we'll follow Holy Spirit. So.
Kathleen Irey (02:20.385)
truth.
Kathleen Irey (02:25.41)
Hmm
Kathleen Irey (02:32.338)
Literally.
Melissa Lapin (02:38.829)
When, what is your experience, what was your experience with God? Like growing up with God, not with God, when did you think, decide that, you know, Jesus could be personal to you and he wasn't just a religious figure? Or has that happened yet? Do you know Jesus?
Melissa Lapin (03:04.353)
I'm assuming a whole lot here.
Kathleen Irey (03:04.57)
No, I don't. Who is this Jesus you talk about?
Melissa Lapin (03:10.101)
Oh Jesus!
Kathleen Irey (03:11.896)
Yeah
like no I won't go there.
Melissa Lapin (03:18.337)
Cool.
Kathleen Irey (03:20.17)
that's Southern California coming up. I would say, no, I was raised Catholic. My mom took us to church. My dad didn't attend ever. And then not a fan, obviously, right? You just basically...
I remember specifically picking out earrings so we could put one in the hand and hide it. Like, that's how you got through church, was playing like, oh, which hand is it in? Right? Like, so you made sure you had earrings in before you went to church. And then my parents split and so for, I got left with my dad. And so from third grade to eighth grade, we didn't attend church ever unless it was one of the times I was with my mom.
Melissa Lapin (03:48.528)
Oh.
Kathleen Irey (04:07.026)
And they lived in different states, so it wasn't like every other weekend kind of a thing. It was every school vacation kind of a thing. So, it's only a couple of times a year we would go to church. And why are you making that face?
Melissa Lapin (04:23.185)
No, I was, hey, the sun's in my eyes, but no, I was trying to reach him.
Kathleen Irey (04:23.953)
Oh.
Oh, I was like, can you not hear me? Like, okay.
Melissa Lapin (04:31.301)
Ew!
Kathleen Irey (04:36.95)
Anyway, guys, we love to have fun.
Melissa Lapin (04:37.377)
For those of you who want to join the show, you can go to YouTube and watch the shenanigans that y'all can't see.
Kathleen Irey (04:46.25)
Yeah, right? No, so it didn't really start to become real for me until I lived with my mom in high school. And she started, she stopped attending the Catholic Church and started attending a Baptist Church. And I always say that was my act of rebellion. I continued to go to the Catholic Church because she made me go to a church and I wasn't gonna attend that Baptist Church with her. And...
Melissa Lapin (05:15.345)
Was that just out of spite or was it just, you didn't like their stuff? You just.
Kathleen Irey (05:17.688)
Yes.
Kathleen Irey (05:21.346)
She okay, so She really about the background in that she married a guy who was 30 years older than her So my mom yes Yes so Exactly and I was like 14 15 and I was not having it and he was the Baptist like he was an ex Baptist preacher and so I it was definitely just spiked
Melissa Lapin (05:29.629)
What in the world? Ew!
Melissa Lapin (05:42.962)
Uh...
Kathleen Irey (05:50.738)
It was, you married some guy, I mean, he was actually really nice and cool and we could afford things after she got married. Yeah, but yeah, I don't know. They did, they did okay. I don't know. Anyway, I got all the questions. Oh, was he really rich? Oh, is that your grandpa? No, that's my stepdad.
Melissa Lapin (05:55.389)
He was like your grandpa then.
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (06:15.502)
having to answer all those questions, you know? Anyway, so no, it was definitely spite, but my mom started pointing out different ways that God shows up in your life and how he can show up in your life and just realizing coincidences are really kind of more Jesus-like being there. And I listened to things my mom said and I filtered what I wanted and what I didn't want.
I still remember this one time I needed a key to get into one of the rooms after school. It was during cheer practice. We had to get something and I couldn't find anybody who had the key. And as soon as she was like, well, just go check this one last place. And as soon as I was like, fine, but if I don't see anybody at this point, then I don't even remember the I put a condition on it, right? Because I was like, OK, God, I need a key to get into the stupid room so I can finish what we got to do.
Melissa Lapin (07:11.071)
man.
Kathleen Irey (07:12.454)
And sure enough, I turned a corner and there was the janitor that I needed who wasn't there like two seconds before, I swear. I had just walked past it and was like turn around and walk past, right? And all of a sudden he was there and I was like, hmm, OK. He starts showing up. And I just noticed little things like that were and I was like, OK, maybe. But never enough. I was very angry. Definitely had my own issues.
And I was doing your usual typical teen stuff. I took a lot of. Drugs to get me through the day, a lot of drinking on the weekends to get me through it, like just anything to quiet the anger down that I could until I turned 18. And graduated high school and I was going to go live my life finally because I'm amazing and it's all I ever wanted to do.
Melissa Lapin (07:55.262)
Sure.
Melissa Lapin (08:07.265)
Ha ha
Kathleen Irey (08:09.058)
I mean, my mom had these rules, and as soon as you were 18 and graduated, then she would release some of the rules. And literally two weeks after I graduated high school, I got pregnant with my daughter. Wah, wah, I know. I was like, I'm gonna go to college. I'm not gonna talk to my sisters. I'm just gonna live my own life, because I'm also the youngest of four girls.
Melissa Lapin (08:23.738)
Wah wah!
Melissa Lapin (08:36.926)
Yeah
Kathleen Irey (08:36.958)
and all of my sisters were in their 20s. And of course, just knew everything that I should do with my life and loved to tell me because I'm the baby, right? Of course you can tell the baby how to live her life because you've been doing it her whole life. So, it was just... Actually, no, I loved them. They were good. I just had a shitty dad. It is what it is.
Melissa Lapin (08:54.109)
No wonder you're so angry. No, I'm just kidding. But am I? Yeah. But it's, but it's true though, you know, we do that. It's a thing. I mean, your story. So I hope that listeners out there, y'all can relate in some way because we all have that, you know, growing up, we're just like, I can't wait till I graduate. As if that's magical and everything. We're so st-
Stupid when we're young. So stupid. I can't wait till I'm 16 and I'll go drive anywhere I want to. And my mom's like, hmm, what car? I ain't buying you one. I'm like, damn it. Foiled again.
Kathleen Irey (09:25.636)
So stupid.
Kathleen Irey (09:38.991)
Yeah, I mean, my mom was great. She bought me a car. She bought a house that had a pool because she knows I love pools. Like I literally had this really great life. I just was angry. I was angry.
Melissa Lapin (09:44.154)
I had one too, but yeah.
Melissa Lapin (09:53.117)
Well, because she didn't want the stuff you wanted good relationship. You know, and I think that's what we all what we were we were. We rebel against. The leave it to beaver, you know, the ideal. I'm sorry, that was probably do you know, leave it to beaver. OK, I forgot how young you were for a second.
Kathleen Irey (09:58.274)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (10:15.306)
Yes, I know Leave It to Beaver. Isn't that?
Melissa Lapin (10:21.861)
It was just a show in the 60s. Yeah, yeah. Leave it to Beaver and the mom and kids and, but yeah.
Kathleen Irey (10:21.998)
June Cleaver? Yeah, I use, yeah. Whenever I'm counseling a woman and they come and I'm always like, dude, you could be June freaking Cleaver and he still would have done A, B, C, and D, you know? Like, cause it's about him, not you. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (10:37.369)
Right. Yeah. Well, and we do, I mean, our expectations, you know, the happily ever after, regardless of what, you know, whether it's in marriage or just our families, we crave, as human beings, we were made for relationship. And we don't, we don't get it.
you know and so yeah i can't wait to live you suck you've ruined my life we all have yeah my 10 year old said that my uh granddaughter annalee she's like you ruined my life you know what i mean i'm like are you kidding me shut up go to your room
Kathleen Irey (11:08.878)
Shut up, I'd said that.
Kathleen Irey (11:14.318)
I still remember you ruined my life and-
Kathleen Irey (11:27.842)
Oh, I find it. Yeah. By the time my mom got to me, she'd obviously raised three teenage daughters already. And I did the you ruined my life. And she tried very hard not to start laughing at that point because she's like, well, that's not going to be good for our relationship. But she was like, yeah, OK. Oh, there it is. You know, she's like, I've accomplished my life goal.
Melissa Lapin (11:48.938)
Yeah.
I've ruined four people's lives.
Kathleen Irey (11:56.643)
I know, right? So whatever.
Melissa Lapin (11:59.326)
Yeah. So then what happened then? Were you still acknowledging God in the little things, you know? Like
Kathleen Irey (12:08.218)
Um, believe it or not, yes or no. So at three months along, my baby daddy was like no longer in the picture. Um, we obviously decided to have the baby. It was, it was a long discussion. I didn't want to. He did. Um, it was, again, I wanted to go to college and they don't let you take babies into the dorm rooms. They just don't. So I was like, I don't.
Melissa Lapin (12:34.596)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (12:37.65)
want this, you know, and there was another God moment. He stepped in, my sister walked in and she looked at me and she was like, are you pregnant? And I was like, yeah, how do you know? She's like, it's pretty obvious. And she just looked at me and she said, this isn't the life you thought you were gonna have, but your life is not over, this is still a life. It's just different. And she said, don't get an abortion. It'll be the worst thing you ever do. I had one at 15.
Melissa Lapin (12:39.78)
Nah.
Melissa Lapin (13:00.84)
Hmm
Kathleen Irey (13:06.802)
It was the biggest mistake I've ever made. And she walked out. Like that was it. There was no discussion. Like, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (13:12.085)
Damn, did you, and you didn't know she had it? 15, wow. Yeah, oh, and just for any listeners, not throwing any shade, there's no judgment on that because people, I mean, you just never, you do what you do.
Kathleen Irey (13:16.006)
No. Nope. At 15. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (13:27.87)
It was it was her boyfriend. Well, it was very much like a parental leadership by my father, but it was her boyfriend's mother who like just got in her head and got in her head and was like, this is not a good idea. You can't do this like and till she had no other choice because she didn't tell any of us. So she had nobody else to confide in and talk to about it. And yeah. So.
Melissa Lapin (13:41.382)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (13:48.883)
Wow.
Melissa Lapin (13:54.757)
Yeah. And that's the thing. You know, people are just, I'm not condoning abortion. I, I think it's awful for the mom, the dad, and the baby. You know, there are no winners, no winners, you know, and, but, but I also very much understand that
Kathleen Irey (14:01.087)
No.
Kathleen Irey (14:05.538)
The women, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, well, the baby, maybe.
Melissa Lapin (14:21.885)
people are just doing the best they can in those situations, regardless of their reason, whatever their heart issue is, they're doing the best they can. So anybody listening, there's no judgment on abortion. It you know, if you want to come on and talk about it, I would love to have you talk about your process, you know, especially if God has just walked you through it, because I know people who have had abortions where they've had encounters.
Jesus has taken them into encounters and they've actually met their babies and the redemption in that and um, d'alexander's one of them you know the founder of sok yeah they no i'm sorry it was an abortion it was an abortion it was not an abortion they lost they lost the baby yes and he did it but i also have had a friend we're not friends anymore but
Kathleen Irey (14:55.872)
Aww.
Kathleen Irey (15:03.01)
Really? I did not know that.
miscarriage.
Melissa Lapin (15:17.225)
she had yeah sorry not sorry she'd had I think three abortions and one point in the last several years she had an encounter with the Lord that where she met her babies and you know Jesus was like look
Kathleen Irey (15:24.679)
Uh... uh huh.
Melissa Lapin (15:39.249)
It is what it is, but they're with me and here they are and here are their names. And it's, I mean, I think it was the first podcast I did. Um, first or second podcast with L'Oreal Towery. And, um, she talks, she just like jumped right in and start talking about it. I'm like, all right, we're going there. And, but she talked about that encounter. Um, the, I mean that, but that's Jesus though. That's.
Kathleen Irey (15:50.254)
What's up?
Kathleen Irey (16:02.102)
That's crazy.
Melissa Lapin (16:07.569)
Reconciliation is his game, and it's reconciling us to himself and us to the truth of the kingdom. And it doesn't matter what shitshow we find ourselves the leader of and the orchestrator of, you know? Because we do. We create our own mess most of the time. Sometimes it's, you know, other people.
Kathleen Irey (16:10.123)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (16:29.41)
you're talking about, it's definitely other people in my life. I don't do anything wrong.
Melissa Lapin (16:32.861)
everybody it's you not me my god but okay it's all right i got i got thick skin i get blamed for a lot of people's shit but it's whatever um yeah it's because we are no bs kind of people and so people will just project that's all it is and
Kathleen Irey (16:35.782)
Exactly. It's your fault, Melissa, not mine.
Kathleen Irey (16:43.286)
No.
Kathleen Irey (16:48.514)
So do I. It's funny that way.
Kathleen Irey (17:02.582)
I know.
Melissa Lapin (17:03.521)
Yeah, it is. So that moment that was, I believe a well moment for you to change, you know, that God used your sister, circling back around, which I'm really good at keeping track, but yeah, circling back around to your sister coming in. So in that conversation or in that statement, because it wasn't really a conversation, God
Kathleen Irey (17:13.002)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (17:17.054)
Yeah, I know, right? Back to it.
Kathleen Irey (17:29.066)
Well, you also, it's definitely a well moment because she didn't even live in the same state as us. She came up to work for a summer so I could babysit her kids. Yeah, she lived in Alabama, we lived in Michigan. So it was like, it was just random that she happened to be in the house at that time anyway. So I know that's why I'm like, it's all God, right? I know he makes it all work out.
Melissa Lapin (17:40.174)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (17:49.469)
Hmm. God's cool that way. Yeah. So did you have in that moment, like thinking back to that moment, did you stop and acknowledge God in that situation or was it still just emotional and or anything?
Kathleen Irey (18:08.362)
No, I definitely didn't acknowledge him. It was, gosh, my story is so horrible. Okay, because you have to understand.
Melissa Lapin (18:16.665)
It's not! It's just a story. It's not like you've killed people. You're not Jeffrey Dahmer and whatever, you know? You didn't eat your baby or whatever, you know? I mean, let me tell you, we can go down that line. TikTok's got some crazy shit on it. No. I don't know. Let's keep on track. Stay on track. Stay on track.
Kathleen Irey (18:32.502)
Right? No. Stay on track. So it was more, I remember in that moment, just being really disappointed.
Melissa Lapin (18:46.4)
in.
Kathleen Irey (18:49.214)
the fact that I realized that I was gonna have a child. So, yes, that I was gonna have to deal with the consequences of my own actions, guys. But, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (18:53.642)
You had to own that shit? Okay.
Melissa Lapin (19:02.397)
See, that's awesome though, because most people don't, you know? I mean, that's the hardest thing for us to do is y'all want a good book? Anybody listening? And you too, Katie. The Extreme Ownership that I just either listened to it. Oh my God. It's an amazing book. But anyway, they talk about that. It's two military guys, two Navy SEAL guys, like way high up in the chain of food.
Kathleen Irey (19:27.967)
Really?
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (19:32.697)
And they just talk about it. And they do a lot of stories from scenarios out of Baghdad and going in the Iraq war and how they were the first ones on the ground in these different scenarios and what happened. And then their decisions they made and then getting back and having to debrief and getting their butts chewed out, but they had to own it, you know?
Kathleen Irey (19:40.77)
Mm.
Melissa Lapin (20:00.757)
their buck stopped with them. And our country, our society is we just we pass the buck so much. It's everything is someone else's fault. So yay for you owning your situation as hard as it was and the disappointment and whatever other emotions you had to work through.
Kathleen Irey (20:16.672)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (20:22.942)
Yeah, yeah, it was rough, but it was definitely my. That was kind of weird. That is what I call my first salvation moment. Um, it was definitely it was definitely one.
Melissa Lapin (20:35.953)
It's cool. There's some people that still get saved every Sunday.
Kathleen Irey (20:40.83)
No, I mean, I just, I have two moments in my life where I was like, okay, God, I give up. I'm gonna follow you. And I was like, it's not really salvation again, but it's just how it works in my head. Yeah, yes. Right.
Melissa Lapin (20:46.719)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (20:52.741)
It's repentance. It's a commitment, you know, and we can do that every day if we need to until we understand that, oh, I don't have to do this every day.
Kathleen Irey (21:02.326)
That was definitely the moment I was like, okay, I've run my life into the ground. Maybe I should try this whole Jesus thing that my mom had been talking about. So, and I did, and it worked out beautifully.
Melissa Lapin (21:10.486)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (21:16.841)
So what did that look like? You can't say that and leave me hanging.
Kathleen Irey (21:22.09)
What did that look like? That looked like...
Melissa Lapin (21:27.585)
Because when you find out you're pregnant and unmarried, you gotta grow up real quick. No matter how old you are, I mean, you could be 30 and find yourself knocked up and you're like, shit, my life just changed at 30, 35, whatever, you know?
Kathleen Irey (21:35.235)
Yes.
Kathleen Irey (21:40.114)
Right. Yes. I mean, in 18. So it looked at 18. It was there was a lot of growing up, but I was OK with it. It didn't actually bother me that much to have to grow up. I mean, I did grieve. I know this is going to sound so sad again. I had to grieve the loss of my 19th birthday because I was nine months pregnant.
Melissa Lapin (21:53.769)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (22:06.906)
And for my 19th, we had always planned to go to Canada, where it's legal to drink and gamble at 19. And obviously you can't do that nine months pregnant. About to pop.
Melissa Lapin (22:12.644)
Uh...
Melissa Lapin (22:19.261)
Well, you could, but you'd be a shitty parent before the kid even got born. But, you know. Ha ha.
Kathleen Irey (22:26.318)
I mean, I could if I didn't want to grow up, you know, but so for me it was that. But no, the living for God really was more or even like what I call salvation. It was I definitely left the Catholic Church. I started attending the church with my mom. Actually, I attended a different church for a couple of months, but it was not a good church. And and then I started attending church with her and I just read my Bible a lot.
Melissa Lapin (22:29.198)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (22:53.146)
and just actually started having conversations with God. Whereas before it was always a very much a check your box kind of a thing for myself, right? Let's go to church on Sunday, that's what we do and make sure you're in the right building. And I don't think I ever read my Bible. I started reading my Bible, I was like.
Melissa Lapin (23:02.643)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (23:07.422)
Yeah.
Ha ha
Melissa Lapin (23:16.457)
So I still don't read my Bible. I'm just kidding.
Wait, that's part of me to Christian? I have to read the Bible?
Kathleen Irey (23:24.482)
Yes, if you don't read the Bible, you can't be a Christian, I'm sorry. I know, I know. Just kidding. This is all, people should probably know we're slightly sarcastic.
Melissa Lapin (23:28.505)
WAH
Melissa Lapin (23:36.746)
They know me, if they've listened to me more than once, they know, they totally understand. And I've actually... Ha ha ha.
Kathleen Irey (23:42.258)
I always laugh at this because I'm like, oh yeah, people don't always know when I'm joking. That's my bad. Yeah. But I just, just that. A lot of praying, a lot of...
Melissa Lapin (23:50.981)
No, we mock religion here.
Kathleen Irey (23:58.486)
what the fuck am I gonna do now? Questions to God? So, and then just, I don't know. I mean, that's pretty much what it was. It was definitely.
Melissa Lapin (24:01.109)
Right?
Kathleen Irey (24:11.306)
It didn't become really truly solidified. Like this is all stuff I was doing again, because I'm really good at doing things. And it really was solidified for me when she was born. And I was so focused on not having a St. Patty's Day baby. I didn't want one at all. And the only thing I had was John 3.16. It was my favorite verse. I'm a baby Christian, right? I'm maybe six months in.
Love it to death, still one of my favorite verses today. And I was lying in the hospital bed, just had this kid. I'm 19, I'm like, uh, okay. She's the cutest little thing ever. And they wrote up on the board, Amelia Jean, 316. And Jesus, for the first time, I had ever like really audibly heard him. And he was like, this is a reminder that she is not a mistake, she is a blessing.
that I'm giving you. And I was like.
Melissa Lapin (25:12.665)
So she was born on March 16th. 316, yeah. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (25:15.746)
Mm-hmm. 316. And it wasn't until they wrote it like on that little board that's in your room, that little white board. And I was like, oh, OK. I see. And it was again, another God thing because I started going to church with my mom and in it was probably the only reason I still attend church today. This great older woman. As the only one who was like
Melissa Lapin (25:21.781)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (25:25.362)
I see you and you see me.
Kathleen Irey (25:45.31)
super excited I was having a kid, you know what I mean? Because clearly I'm 19, I'm coming to this church, I'm pregnant, I'm showing up with a baby without a dad. You know, all of this, and it's just, she was the only one, oh my gosh, she like gave me the cutest little basket of stuff, and she would like come over, how's the baby doing, how you doing, you know, like other moms do to other, yes, and didn't make me feel like.
Melissa Lapin (25:52.138)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (26:08.393)
Just loved on you. Yeah. Yeah, that's cool.
Kathleen Irey (26:14.758)
Yes, and I swear to you, I still have credit to the reason I attend church is because everybody else you could tell gave me sideways looks. But she didn't. And she was just the greatest. And the really sad thing is I can't even remember her name. I'm always like, oh, to me, I was like, that was Jesus. She was just being Jesus for me.
Melissa Lapin (26:22.839)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (26:30.842)
Aww.
Melissa Lapin (26:34.209)
I was gonna say, maybe she was an angel. Honest, that's so cool.
Kathleen Irey (26:38.278)
Mm-hmm. Oh, definitely. I mean, it's crazy. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (26:47.186)
I know. It's interesting.
Melissa Lapin (26:48.617)
So do you go to church now?
Kathleen Irey (26:51.954)
Yeah, I watch church. Does that count? I go to church every once in a while. We go to church.
Melissa Lapin (26:55.593)
You do you, boo! Ha ha ha! It's Christmas! Get your ass in the car! We're going to church!
Kathleen Irey (27:04.334)
It's actually, believe it or not, some of my daughters like, we haven't gone to church in a while. And I'm like, all right, which one we going to? We have three to choose from. And they pick one and we go.
Kathleen Irey (27:17.674)
I know. I'm terrible.
Melissa Lapin (27:18.401)
I can never do that. I know that's, I think that's great that you're not locked into a legalistic denomination. You know, I can only go to Baptist churches or I can only go to denominational, non-denominational, you know, whatever. I'm just like, I don't even wanna go to church at all. I don't care what name is on the door.
Kathleen Irey (27:21.362)
Oh, really?
Kathleen Irey (27:25.878)
Mm-mm.
Kathleen Irey (27:36.418)
Well, that's like a separate journey I went on with God.
Melissa Lapin (27:43.075)
Do tell! We've got time!
Kathleen Irey (27:46.094)
We've got time, we'll just talk everything. So I clearly spent 18 years Catholic, raised Catholic. I can do a rosary like nobody's business, guys.
Melissa Lapin (27:55.581)
Okay, so, was there, riddle me this, what did you like about the Catholic Church? Were there things that you liked? Did you like the consistency of the Catholic Church, the reliability, you like nothing of it? Okay, because it was too boxed you in?
Kathleen Irey (28:01.506)
Mm-hmm.
Kathleen Irey (28:14.812)
No. The only...
Melissa Lapin (28:19.305)
Did you just shush me with your hand? Oh my God! That's like the whole Austin Powers. This is what you're doing. This is what I want you to do. This is my podcast. You don't shush me on my own podcast.
Kathleen Irey (28:37.698)
See, I told you I should have done my own intro. Apparently this is my podcast now. No, no, no. Oh, that was not, no, that was me like thinking. So.
Kathleen Irey (28:56.93)
I can't believe you just-
Kathleen Irey (29:05.41)
Whoo!
Melissa Lapin (29:06.046)
Again, for those of you who want the full package, go to YouTube!
Kathleen Irey (29:20.814)
this podcast five hours long. Oh, there's about three hours of laughing. You just got to get through. It's okay. It's okay, guys.
Melissa Lapin (29:26.113)
Oh yeah, and by the way, we don't edit, so this is all, all gonna be there.
Kathleen Irey (29:30.057)
Oh no.
That's hilarious. Um, anyway. No, I was not shushing you. I was this is my thinking. So the only thing I truly enjoy about the Catholic Church was we always said, Hail Mary and the Our Father, every service. I don't know that all Catholic churches do that, but that's just like how we were raised. And those have been.
Melissa Lapin (29:35.846)
Ahem.
Melissa Lapin (29:40.449)
I'm sorry.
Kathleen Irey (30:01.86)
some of the...
Kathleen Irey (30:06.09)
The only thing that I've been able to...
Kathleen Irey (30:11.906)
cling to in some of my darkest hours is that I can recite my Hail Mary's and I can recite my our father, the our father. And that's, that's all I've had. And so I'm like that kind of indoctrination. Um, I still love, I still love, I still have, I still
Melissa Lapin (30:15.167)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (30:25.903)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (30:31.946)
I will tell you, it's fun when you meet other ex-Catholics because there are certain things we do. I still do the sign of the father, even the Lutherans don't, but they say the same thing. And then I go, yep. I don't know why, but it feels very wrong if you don't do it. Even though I know it's not, it's definitely just a tradition thing, but it's like, I like it. I like there are certain things that I enjoy still. I like...
Melissa Lapin (30:52.135)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (30:59.454)
My Jesus cross on the wall. Sorry people. And you put your palm behind it on Palm Sunday that you get. Like just little things like that, but nothing actually to do with the church itself. No, no, not a fan. Went there, we go every Mother's Day. My mom still goes to a Catholic church and we'll go to church with her on Mother's Day.
Melissa Lapin (31:12.765)
Right?
Melissa Lapin (31:21.473)
All right, I thought she went to a Baptist church.
Kathleen Irey (31:27.14)
Okay
Melissa Lapin (31:27.717)
Is this a different mom? Did I miss something?
Kathleen Irey (31:30.316)
No it's-
Melissa Lapin (31:36.353)
She's a Catholic- Catholicist?
Kathleen Irey (31:37.898)
My mom was raised, we're gonna go down another rabbit hole. She was raised Catholic, started Baptist in her 30s when she got sober, did that until most recently a few years ago, five or six years ago, the Baptist church we were in split and God sent us everywhere. And she ended up, she landed in the Catholic church in town. So yeah, so she's back to the Catholic church, but anyway.
Melissa Lapin (31:45.078)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (32:00.522)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (32:06.357)
Okay. I'm caught up now.
Kathleen Irey (32:07.774)
I know it's crazy. You caught up. Yeah. So I mean, I still go every once in a while and it's. I know. So not a fan of it. But.
Melissa Lapin (32:17.409)
So, one, two, skip a few. Where, what are your well moments nowadays? What does your relationship look like? Like, what is that?
Kathleen Irey (32:27.415)
Mm.
Melissa Lapin (32:34.279)
Um...
Like the little, you know, you talked about just the little moments with God. Where do you see those now that you you're. This far into your journey because you're old now.
Kathleen Irey (32:48.91)
everywhere. So now, now that I'm obviously this far into the journey, we've done so much. I've grown so much. It's not, I'll still see it. Oh gosh, just everywhere. Literally. You can, I just, ah, hold on. You gotta get, let me gather my thoughts. Um.
Melissa Lapin (32:50.483)
Yeah?
Kathleen Irey (33:11.206)
It's not so much always that I see him doing stuff for me. I mean, cause you just know there are certain times I'm like, oh, thanks God, when I needed something and it's right there or it's, oh, this is gonna be hard to explain. It's definitely a lot more supernatural now. I've seen him slow down time for me. I've seen.
Melissa Lapin (33:20.033)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (33:34.837)
Cool.
Melissa Lapin (33:38.358)
Cool.
Kathleen Irey (33:39.914)
It almost always happens that if I'm running late because of something Whatever I'm going to will start late So there's a lot of things where he's like, hey, don't worry. I got you. There's Just so many little things where I'm like, okay if I just keep going with him or hey, I need a washing machine This is what I want to buy. I walk in the one machine brand I wanted but was too expensive happens to be on sale for the price I wanted. Oh, hey, thanks God You know
Melissa Lapin (34:08.105)
Mm. Love that kind of stuff.
Kathleen Irey (34:09.378)
And that one, that one, my brother-in-law was with us. And he was like, you're just gonna buy it? And I was like, yep. And he was like, but you haven't looked everywhere else. What if it's cheaper somewhere else? I said, I don't care. That's what I wanted to spend. And he was like, but you don't, like literally he was on his phone, Googling things. And I was like, I told God what I wanted. I told him how much I wanted to pay. Here it is. I don't have to do more than this. Like this machine will be fine.
Melissa Lapin (34:19.015)
I'm gonna
Melissa Lapin (34:37.177)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (34:39.082)
I don't have to stress the word, but more so like you still see God that way, but it's actually more I'll see God using me in other people's lives more. Now that I'm older, a little more seasoned, I'm like sitting there, hey, this is my plan for the day. You know how you do. And somebody shows up at your door and you're like, oh, all right, you need some Jesus. All right. Day's going to change. You know?
Melissa Lapin (35:00.949)
Mmm.
Melissa Lapin (35:09.123)
No.
Kathleen Irey (35:09.186)
or somebody's coming over for what should be a 10 minute, maybe an hour long thing, and seven hours later, they're walking out of your house. You know, I, so things like that is definitely. No.
Melissa Lapin (35:19.418)
You're more of a saint than I am.
I would not have it like you got 20 minutes talk fast
Melissa Lapin (35:31.397)
No, that's not true. Maybe. You, yeah, I would. Bitch, your word count is done, move on.
Kathleen Irey (35:34.146)
I know. I was like, you wouldn't kick me out.
Melissa Lapin (35:47.94)
Ha ha
Kathleen Irey (35:49.486)
Melissa, you're so funny. Have another drink.
Melissa Lapin (35:51.729)
I like that laugh at me in the parking lot because I'm done.
Kathleen Irey (36:01.582)
Yeah. I mean, literally it happened the other day. A girl showed up. My husband was fixing her tire. I thought maybe an hour, maybe two. Seven hours later, she left my house. And then it wasn't until the next day I realized I didn't feed her or give her anything to drink. Seven hours she was at my house. We didn't eat. And I was like...
Melissa Lapin (36:25.853)
You couldn't even starve her out. But that's cool, though. That makes me think. Yeah, bad hostess. But that's so cool, though. And that shows you that when two or more gathered. Kingdom and heaven manifest right there because of the story of the woman at the well. Jesus.
Kathleen Irey (36:33.374)
I was like, oh damn, I felt bearable. It's literally.
Melissa Lapin (36:54.925)
and Fattini, neither one of them ever drank. None of them, they were both there to get water, and they never drank. We don't know how long the conversation was. We don't know. We just don't. There's no historical anything about it. And then when the disciples get there, he's like, I'm not hungry. And they're like, wait, did someone feed him? And he's like, the food I've had, you don't know anything about.
Kathleen Irey (36:59.357)
Eh, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (37:24.961)
and in that translations there it's a sustenance like it physically satisfied his body to have that encounter with her.
Kathleen Irey (37:38.843)
Guess.
Melissa Lapin (37:39.769)
like whatever the Greek word is, I don't know what the Greek word is, but it it's it physically satisfied his body, you know, and there's times that I've gone where I've been studying or writing or even in times of worship and stuff when and it would be like seven o'clock at night, I'm like, I didn't think I ate today, you know, because
you just get with God. Now to do a fast on I don't fast but that's different that's painful but you know when you're just gonna show up and hang out with Jesus you're not gonna want food kind of thing but I think that's cool and bad all at the same time.
Kathleen Irey (38:26.094)
I know it was I felt so I was like I didn't I did not feed this poor child. I was like, but you also have to understand my house was a gift from God. And it was definitely he blessed us with this particular house. And I had a bunch of people pray in it that whoever was hungry would come. Like this is what this will be used for forever. And that is still my prayer for this house, because we prayed for it and prayed for it and prayed for it. And like, no offense, there's no.
Melissa Lapin (38:43.669)
Hmm.
Kathleen Irey (38:54.438)
we should have gotten this house. Started out with the credit rating of 580 when we were looking at it. And within two months we were at 670. And like just, you know what I mean? Things like that when God's like, no, I got a house for you, don't worry. And with where this one's located and the price, it never should have stayed on the market as long as it did, but it waited for us. And so just, yeah, it's just all of it. And so whenever that happens in my house, I'm like, oh yeah, hey, look.
Melissa Lapin (39:18.021)
Yeah, that's awesome.
Kathleen Irey (39:24.626)
I really thought people, when we prayed it, I don't know why I thought food, not Jesus. But it's rare, I usually feed people, but not always when they show up for Jesus, we mostly give them a lot of Jesus. So, and it's just crazy how, yeah, I know.
Melissa Lapin (39:38.093)
He's the bread of life. So there's that, you know?
Kathleen Irey (39:43.206)
Oh yeah, for sure. That's what I'm feeding them, right? You know, you're like, oh, I just was just like, well, that's not what I thought, but okay. Keeps happening. So we keep doing it.
Melissa Lapin (39:46.292)
Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Melissa Lapin (39:54.173)
So that's right. That's one thing I love about you is like you're, you have great. Adaptability. You're just like, all right, this is what we're doing now. And you've changed your plan and you move on. It doesn't, it doesn't derail you.
Kathleen Irey (40:04.762)
Okay.
Kathleen Irey (40:13.418)
No, but again, especially if it's of God, like I said, I've seen him stop time. I knew I could judge my work really well at a job I had. And I was like, okay, I have an hour and a half left before I have to leave to go pick my kid up from school. And this is an hour and a half worth of work because they would get cranky if I would leave work behind. So as long as I finished it, they didn't care. So I was like, okay, cool, perfect timing.
Melissa Lapin (40:14.674)
And I love that.
Kathleen Irey (40:41.842)
in walks this woman who needs to have this 40 minute long conversation, funnily enough that just because you attend church doesn't mean you're a Christian, blew her mind and we had to... I know, right? And she kind of, it was a perfect attendance Christian and she was very offended and we had to work through this. And I was just kind of like, now I only have like 40 minutes.
Melissa Lapin (40:52.513)
Hmm. Shocker!
Kathleen Irey (41:10.178)
to get an hour and a half's worth of work done. Guess what I got done in 40 minutes. And every time I was checking the clock, I was like, only two minutes has passed? You know what I mean? I've literally seen time slow, that I was like, there's no, I do this every day, there's no way I got that done that fast. And I was just like, oh, he just takes care of it. There's, you don't have to stress, he will take care of the rest of it. And I've just had so many of those.
Melissa Lapin (41:22.177)
Mm-hmm.
Kathleen Irey (41:39.49)
where I'm just like, okay, so there's no, I don't have time for that kind of stress in my life.
Melissa Lapin (41:47.357)
right? I do that too. I'm like, all right, God, you got this one, right? I just, I just keep plugging along.
Kathleen Irey (41:51.494)
Yeah. And if not, I don't know, we'll figure it out. I mean, there was just we've just man, if you knew me, my 20s, you would have hated me.
Melissa Lapin (41:57.076)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (42:04.117)
I don't know, I probably would have kicked your ass because I wasn't so nice in my 20s either. I think we would have been mortal enemies. Just hear that K, girl. I'm gonna go kick her ass tomorrow.
Kathleen Irey (42:11.01)
Probably.
Kathleen Irey (42:20.302)
And I would have been like, bring it, you want to go? No, I was just, I stressed about everything and everything, my poor husband and just, we never had money, ever. So I was always stressed and then I was so busy trying to be this great Christian in this church and that stressed me out because I fucking failed every day. And it was like, at what point do I, can I be successful? And it was just like, I never could.
Melissa Lapin (42:21.185)
Thank you.
Melissa Lapin (42:47.137)
Right? I mean, with all the rules and stipulations that the church has put on being a Christian, I mean, it's no wonder most Christians, most Christians that I know, live such defeated, unhappy lives. All the while, I'm more than a conqueror and I could do anything through Christ who strengthened me. I'm like, prove it!
Kathleen Irey (43:06.158)
Yes.
Melissa Lapin (43:14.793)
You know, I don't see it, you know, why are you complaining about this or why you still broke or you know and I don't know.
Kathleen Irey (43:15.823)
I know. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (43:24.058)
I worked with a deacon and one time I was like, whatever, we're gonna trust God, we can't know it. There was no, we couldn't order any more of it. Like whatever, we were almost out of something and they weren't sure what number they were gonna need. And I was like, God's got it. He was like, God doesn't work here. And I was like, I looked at him, I was like, you're a deacon in our church. Like, I was like, what do you mean? God, I was just like.
Melissa Lapin (43:40.496)
Oh snap.
Melissa Lapin (43:47.345)
Right? It's a job. It's a title. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (43:53.398)
I remember going, oh, okay.
Melissa Lapin (43:57.581)
Oh yeah, I was, I should have never been there, but I was at a youth camp. They made me a cabin host person, whatever. I don't even know what you call them. Cabin, yeah, that's the word. See, I don't even know what it's called. They made me a cabin counselor. And bro, I hadn't been a Christian like six months. Literally from like August.
Kathleen Irey (43:59.379)
I can't.
Kathleen Irey (44:10.317)
counselor?
Kathleen Irey (44:14.902)
You were a camp counselor? Okay.
Kathleen Irey (44:22.87)
Hehehe
Melissa Lapin (44:26.089)
to the next summer, so six, seven months, and they put me in a cabin. Whatever, this is what we do. We're Christian, I'm gonna do this now, right? And I tell you what, there was some demonic stuff happening, right? Like literally, I didn't even know what was up, but there was some stuff happening at nighttime, and I didn't know it, I didn't have a grid for it, but.
Kathleen Irey (44:29.716)
Okay.
Kathleen Irey (44:44.802)
Breeze?
Melissa Lapin (44:55.409)
being a knower and being very, very prophetic. And I can see things in the spirit and stuff like that. It's more knowing, but I know when things are happening. And I know when and there was there was some demonic stuff happening. But I didn't have a grid for any of that. And there, you know, kids kept like
more than just average things, you know, I mean, kids can be clumsy. And I'm not saying demons were running around tormenting kids or whatever. I mean, let's not go down that road. But, but, but things there were some there were some shit that was happening in my actual first demonic physical demonic encounter happened there. But during that time was there, I don't know, maybe like three weeks I lasted.
Kathleen Irey (45:27.853)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (45:37.006)
I'm a travel payment, do it.
Melissa Lapin (45:53.985)
They kicked me out. They asked me to leave because, oh hell yeah, they totally did. I should have never been there anyway. But it was because I challenged and I was like, well, why, why are we allowing this to happen? You know, what, what is, and then it's what you're what?
Kathleen Irey (45:59.022)
Did they really?
Kathleen Irey (46:08.978)
So, yeah.
Kathleen Irey (46:15.789)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (46:22.105)
I'd ask a question. I asked this guy, he was, I can't remember, he was one of the core staff and we were talking and I asked him a question. He goes, oh that's just new Christian zeal. That'll go away. I'm like, bruh, why would I want it to go away? If I understand the scripture to say that I can punch a demon in the throat and he has to leave, well why aren't we doing that? You know? And they just couldn't handle that.
So I got asked to leave.
a church where drums were from hell so there's that yeah they didn't have drums during their worship because drums were from hell so it was like organ music and guitars and stuff yeah
Kathleen Irey (47:09.178)
I okay, I will stand by this statement probably till the day I die. I truly believe the organ is the instrument from hell. I just accepted it as normal, but it is like the worst thing ever made that I'm like, why is it played in a church? No, there's nothing good about it. Nothing. And I'm talking sorry. I'm talking that.
Melissa Lapin (47:22.867)
Right?
Melissa Lapin (47:31.501)
It depends. No, it depends. Depends the song. Like old people organ.
Kathleen Irey (47:38.718)
that big organ that takes up the entire loft of the church. You know what? That, that, that has no beat. There's no like, okay, you have to understand, again, we, we missed this part, but I'm in a Lutheran church now, okay? Because this is where God sends me and they love their organ.
Melissa Lapin (47:42.382)
Yeah, those, yeah, sounds like a bunch of cats. Yeah, and farm animals.
Kathleen Irey (48:03.87)
And there has not been one time my daughter and I, and we try to sing and if you can't sing, we try to read the words because, you know, we're trying to get our worship on here. And they're just, it's just all organ music. And I go high when then the organ goes low and there's not been one time we haven't busted out laughing cause I hold the note way too long or not long enough cause I'm like, who sings like this first off? Like I just.
I'm sorry. The organ is the worst music ever made. And I'm not talking that like small organ because our Baptist church had like an organ and a piano, but it's not really an organ. The big ugly God awful ones. That I think should be banned from church. Maybe I'll try to start that petition, guys. Sorry. There we go. I'm telling you.
Melissa Lapin (48:41.979)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (48:57.009)
exercise all the church's organs. We're doing exorcism. They're okay to-
Kathleen Irey (49:03.254)
Just going to put it in people's ears that it's of the devil and see if we can get him removed.
Melissa Lapin (49:09.441)
Did you know the devil was actually shaped like an organ?
Melissa Lapin (49:18.857)
But it is true though, you know when Satan walked he actually made music with his body? Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (49:24.418)
Ugh. And I'm sure it wasn't drums.
Melissa Lapin (49:27.821)
No, but it was like all kinds of stuff and he was beautiful. He was like made with jewels and things, but when he walked that's the research and their whatever. I don't know how they know this, but um yeah right. I don't know. I don't know, but just from writings and stuff. An Orcan cult. An Orcan cult. You're right, but don't bash them in the goggles.
Kathleen Irey (49:41.639)
Okay, that was gonna be, how'd they come up with this one? But okay.
Kathleen Irey (49:48.03)
Was this done by like a cult Pentecostal church?
Melissa Lapin (49:58.797)
Um, but yeah, I didn't know like when he... Yeah, I guess, yeah.
Kathleen Irey (49:59.042)
No, I love them all. That's, yeah, I should probably say. I've literally been them all. So that's why I can make fun of all of them.
Melissa Lapin (50:10.137)
I speak from experience. They're all weird. That's hilarious.
Kathleen Irey (50:16.83)
I don't know what you want from me. I've been in them all. Other than Pentecostal, I haven't done that one.
Melissa Lapin (50:24.989)
Well, the thing is there's so many sects within the denomination, you know, there are even, even Pentecostals, there's going to be like 45, you know, no makeup, put your hair in a bun, long skirts. Oh, no, it's materialism. You can't wear makeup. You can't have any jewelry. Because it's materialistic.
Kathleen Irey (50:33.099)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (50:41.84)
No makeup?
Melissa Lapin (50:52.733)
those they kind of lean toward like the Mennonite ish kind of. But yeah, I mean, there's those kind of Pentecostally all the way up to the ones that we got up in her in the mountains of North Georgia and the Baptist that will have snakes in their services and the primitive Baptist and stuff. Yeah, man. Oh, yeah, primitive Baptist. The Bible says we can we can drink poison and handle snakes and.
Kathleen Irey (50:56.01)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (51:13.742)
Cheers!
Kathleen Irey (51:17.653)
new pod.
Melissa Lapin (51:23.741)
somewhere in there. So something like that. And they do. Oh, yeah. Really? You never heard of Google it? Go YouTube.
Kathleen Irey (51:31.546)
No, never heard this. Like you're literally blowing my mind. I thought I've seen enough.
Melissa Lapin (51:38.369)
No? Yup, come down here, we'll go, we'll find us a once a month Sunday meeting in a holler up here. Get some moonshine and snake hailing on a Sunday.
Kathleen Irey (51:41.524)
Alright.
Kathleen Irey (51:51.262)
to experience this like I said. And why not? You only live once. Let's go see what it's about.
Melissa Lapin (51:58.373)
Yeah, but we'll live forever once. You realize that? Ever. There's no YOLO for us. Or it never ends. We just, we just changed location.
Kathleen Irey (52:04.322)
well.
Kathleen Irey (52:08.59)
I mean, it doesn't end, but this life, I only do that once.
Melissa Lapin (52:14.053)
Yeah, we just changed. I know I wouldn't want to do this life twice.
Kathleen Irey (52:18.426)
No. I'm not, I'm not down with that, but anyway.
Melissa Lapin (52:19.973)
So wrapping up taking this in for a landing because we could do this all night long, you know we could.
Kathleen Irey (52:30.86)
All night long.
Melissa Lapin (52:34.141)
Um, here, this is what you're doing.
Melissa Lapin (52:47.097)
What would be some encouragement you'd want to leave with the Listers? Listiners.
Kathleen Irey (52:53.264)
Oh.
Melissa Lapin (52:55.765)
Yeah, just some encouragement, some advice, word of wisdom. We don't edit anything. This is...
Kathleen Irey (52:58.894)
This is this is where Scott's going to need to edit this. That this 10 minute break while I come up with some.
Kathleen Irey (53:10.233)
Um, encouragement.
Melissa Lapin (53:16.361)
From your experience, oh, I know what you could say. You want me to help you? You want me to prompt you? Showing up for yourself. Leave him with that.
Kathleen Irey (53:21.707)
What?
Kathleen Irey (53:25.286)
Oh yeah.
Yeah. Love Jesus. Love yourself and show up for yourself. That was the biggest one. I know we didn't even get to that.
Melissa Lapin (53:37.957)
Yeah, that'll be second episode, part two.
Kathleen Irey (53:41.655)
Part two.
Melissa Lapin (53:43.545)
Actually, I don't know, we probably got time to do. Oh, yeah, we got plenty of time. Yeah, keep talking. So once you skip a few, we're gonna skip to closer since I've known you and going through KLM. And we'll find a good place to edit and stop or whatever and break this into two things. But showing up for yourself. We'll break it in half. We ain't taking anything out.
Kathleen Irey (53:46.37)
Do we? I don't know.
Whoa, we can, oh, we're going to keep talking.
Skip. Yes.
Kathleen Irey (54:06.224)
What happened to We Don't Edit?
Melissa Lapin (54:13.601)
Um, or adding any personality. No, just kidding.
Kathleen Irey (54:15.934)
You don't know how much inside me just wants to start like dropping like the word poop and seeing if you leave it in there.
Melissa Lapin (54:24.585)
Oh, we will leave everything in there. Apparently you've never listened to my podcast, so I'm offended now. Yeah. Now I have, okay, anyway, circle background. You're being a very unruly guest. I know. Yeah, so over the last year.
Kathleen Irey (54:27.203)
Bye!
Kathleen Irey (54:32.95)
You can say it's not edited all you want. Anyway.
Kathleen Irey (54:42.699)
It's how I roll, y'all.
Melissa Lapin (54:49.801)
Just the process that we've gone through with Kingdom Leadership Matrix and the Abundant Living Mapping part of that. And just talk about that, showing up for yourself in that and your revelation in that.
Kathleen Irey (55:01.174)
That one actually came about after another well moment. Another one I had. This is the one I referenced my second time, right? My second salvation, even though it's not salvation. It was 29. I had now spent 10 years Baptist, really striving in the religion as much as I could and just feeling so defeated and
I remember looking around and my husband thought the church was of the devil because of, you know, I was just too nagging and my children knew how to answer every question and wanted nothing to do with God. But they knew every answer, you know, and I just was kind of like, um, I gave up. I sat in a closet. That's when I was praying in my closet and I told God, um,
Melissa Lapin (55:38.336)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (55:46.409)
Hmm, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (55:53.995)
Hmm.
Kathleen Irey (56:00.922)
I told God, I told him to fuck off. And if this is what Christianity was, I didn't really want to be a part of it anymore. I told him I was done. And that, I thought he was a fucking joke. And I said, clearly I can't live up to your standards, so maybe I should quit trying. You know, I was like, I let him have it. And this is what I get with.
Melissa Lapin (56:16.648)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (56:21.417)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (56:26.302)
And he's like, well, Katie, good. Now let me, let me show you.
Kathleen Irey (56:30.602)
Literally, that was his answer. He said, Oh, thank God I've been waiting. I was like. Thank myself. I know, like literally, because in my head, I heard, thank God, I've been waiting for you to give up that so that we can. And he said, we've got work to do. Let's go. And I was like.
Melissa Lapin (56:36.997)
Fake myself, I've been waiting.
Melissa Lapin (56:46.378)
Hmm.
Kathleen Irey (56:52.706)
What? Like, I was just like.
Melissa Lapin (56:53.457)
Excuse me? Do I have the right God? Which God? I know I've been to a lot of churches, but which God am I praying to right now?
Kathleen Irey (57:04.482)
Hey, as I said, I will always say I'm hedging my bets. One of them's gonna get me into heaven, guys.
Melissa Lapin (57:06.263)
Thank you.
Melissa Lapin (57:10.793)
So that's what those are you playing Christian roulette.
Kathleen Irey (57:13.742)
This is why we church hop. No, um so
Kathleen Irey (57:23.766)
just in case y'all won't know how to do it. No, no, no. Sorry. A lot of people have a hard time with my story, so I tend to make jokes when I can tell. It's...
Melissa Lapin (57:30.503)
I'm going to go.
Melissa Lapin (57:39.811)
But you know, most people won't even tell their own story. So let them judge. So
Kathleen Irey (57:40.316)
is just a lot of time.
Kathleen Irey (57:44.53)
Yeah, it's more it's more the churches I'm going to. So I like to I like to poke the bear a little like if God's sending me to a new church and they're like, you know, why are you here? You don't agree with us and whatever. I just throw some jokes out there to really. Nail it home so that they can really be like, I'm not talking to that girl.
Melissa Lapin (57:49.813)
it's fun.
Melissa Lapin (58:04.273)
Oh, I do too. I'm like.
I'm gonna go to bed.
Kathleen Irey (58:11.818)
I am who I am. No, so I have this moment with God and his reaction was definitely not what I was expecting. I was I was like, what like? We're doing stuff. What like I really expected him to be like not that. Yeah, right.
Melissa Lapin (58:30.966)
Lightning bolt in your closet and they find your charred body in the closet.
Kathleen Irey (58:36.566)
something or like an angry dad or, you know, like just like punish me for everything I just told him. And he was like, no, I've been waiting for you to like reach this point. And I'm like, we kind of done it a little sooner. But OK, so that was my first like true. I had to surrender some things that I the reason it took so long. I wasn't willing to surrender. And the biggest thing was my children.
Melissa Lapin (58:39.422)
Yeah, yeah.
Ahem.
Melissa Lapin (59:03.509)
Yeah. Mm.
Kathleen Irey (59:05.382)
So clearly my mother divorced my dad and moved to Michigan and I got left in California with my father. And yes. No, no, not at that time. So the older two went to Michigan and the younger two got left in California. So not her fault. It was the judge's fault. So.
Melissa Lapin (59:14.229)
Did she take your sisters? Or they were gone, because they were older, right? Not at that time? Oh, but she did. Bro, that's shitty.
Melissa Lapin (59:29.198)
I'm sorry.
Melissa Lapin (59:33.873)
Yeah, but still.
Kathleen Irey (59:35.795)
Yeah, well, we even had our own lawyer. We had a plan. The older two were gonna say they wanted to move to Michigan. The younger two were saying, we wanted to all four of us stay together. We didn't care where, because we were too young to pick between a parent. And my older two sisters were aware how fucked up my dad was, and that they needed to go with mom. And then the judge said, okay, older two there, younger two there. And that was a well moment for my mom. I should have her on here.
Melissa Lapin (59:49.121)
Sure.
Melissa Lapin (01:00:00.639)
Mmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:00:03.918)
because she walked out of the court and she was like, what? God, you told me to go to Michigan and now you're leaving these two here. You know, so it was. Yeah. And he said literally, he was responsible. Is don't you think I love them more than you? And he was like, I've got them, you know, and I was like, oh, oh. She was like, fine. But yes, so I got left in California. So the biggest thing for me was I was not willing to leave my children.
Melissa Lapin (01:00:11.53)
Wow.
Melissa Lapin (01:00:18.378)
Mmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:00:33.022)
I wasn't gonna do it. Maybe some unhealed trauma from my childhood, who knows? But that was a rule and a line in the sand that I drew. And was honestly, it's not necessarily a line in the sand that I drew. It was definitely something I was afraid of. So if I leaned too much into my faith or thought God was leading me somewhere that might take me from my children, I would like fearfully walk away from that. And so it wasn't.
Melissa Lapin (01:00:34.574)
Mm.
Melissa Lapin (01:00:59.393)
Hmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:01:00.63)
It wasn't necessarily like a boundary. It was definitely more of a fear. And so in that moment, in that closet, I literally, he was like, we got work to do. I said, fine. I surrendered and said, if I have to leave my children, if I have to divorce my husband, if I have to move to the farthest corner of the earth, as far from them as I could possibly go, I'll go and do what you need me to do. Say what I need to say. Like, let's do this then.
And he was like, OK. And I had finally like it was a huge knot in my stomach that released. You know how like you don't even realize it's there until it releases. And you're like, oh, my God, I've lived like that for 10 years. Like, oh, so. And that was my biggest one was I was just not willing to surrender my children. And I will tell you, I surrendered them. I said, they're yours. Have them. I get this.
Melissa Lapin (01:01:38.154)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:01:41.728)
Yeah?
Melissa Lapin (01:01:46.289)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:02:00.985)
and um
Melissa Lapin (01:02:03.429)
And look at there, he didn't take them, did he? People think God is just gonna swoop in and make us miserable and he's a tyrant and take our kids as bond servants until we obey him. I mean, mm, bruh.
Kathleen Irey (01:02:06.314)
He did not, no. No, he did not. And actually...
Kathleen Irey (01:02:20.846)
I will tell you six months, maybe a year. Within the next year, both of my children got saved and were baptized. So yeah, yeah. And I was like, I always tell people it was.
Melissa Lapin (01:02:29.589)
Come on.
Kathleen Irey (01:02:38.318)
Wait, and now I can't even think of it. Like they were baptized despite myself, not because of me. In spite of me, that's the word. I was like, what's the word? Yeah, I know. So I'm always like, cause it was a blessing.
Melissa Lapin (01:02:44.257)
Mm-hmm. Right. In spite of you. Despite you. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:02:54.041)
Yeah, well, it's amazing. It's amazing what God can do when we get out of his way. People don't really even with our even with ourselves, when we have our plan, like you said, that you were doing, that was your line in the sand. You're like, God, I will walk up to this line. I will not cross it if my children can't come, you know, and.
Kathleen Irey (01:02:59.338)
Yeah. I'm just saying.
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:03:16.398)
Mm-mm. Yep.
Melissa Lapin (01:03:20.569)
I think we spend most of our lives giving God ultimatums and telling God what we're going to do and what we're not going to do, whether we straight up say that or just by our actions and all the unspoken things because we do not understand the Father heart of God. It's like you said to your mom.
Kathleen Irey (01:03:26.306)
Yes.
Melissa Lapin (01:03:40.617)
Do you think that you love your children more than I do? Do you think you love yourself more than I love you? Do you think, you know, all of these things, all these questions he could ask us, you know? And we would have like the whole Job thing, you know? Job's all running his mouth and God's like, all right, I'm stepping in, all y'all are stupid, and you shut your mouth. Cause none of y'all know me, right?
Kathleen Irey (01:03:49.321)
Mm-hmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:03:53.734)
Right. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:04:08.777)
And so we job God all the time. All the time, we do it all the time.
Kathleen Irey (01:04:11.854)
All the time. Yeah. I'd like to say I don't anymore, but. So that whole, that, that well moment led me on a really shitty journey.
Melissa Lapin (01:04:17.461)
Oh, we still do.
Melissa Lapin (01:04:27.457)
It's hard. And that's why a lot of people won't do it. When you surrender, bro, you're walking up to that fiery bush, butt naked. And you're, you know, and you're like, all right, let's do this. You know, what are we doing? And you're just there and you're surrendered. And it gets hard sometimes, and it gets ugly. And it causes us to look inside and really deal with ourselves and
Kathleen Irey (01:04:30.658)
Yeah. It was.
Kathleen Irey (01:04:38.41)
Yes!
Yes. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:04:54.411)
Yes.
Melissa Lapin (01:04:57.173)
People don't want to do that.
Kathleen Irey (01:05:00.678)
No, and I was really great at not doing it. I mean, to an extent. So a lot of big mountaintops after that, he sent me to a lot of places. He had me say a lot of things. I might be the reason that church split because I started it. I didn't start it, Jesus started it.
Melissa Lapin (01:05:05.505)
Hmm. A lot of us are.
Kathleen Irey (01:05:24.386)
He just sent me in the physical form to say some things and it turns out the church didn't wanna go that way. Then we all split. So, anyway, one story. Nope. Sure, if you haven't been sitting in the front pew while your pastor gives that, is it Titus or Timothy, wherever the woman should sit down and shut up?
Melissa Lapin (01:05:34.573)
I thought I was a troublemaker. I've never split a church.
Melissa Lapin (01:05:48.086)
Oh yeah, you're telling me about that, yeah. Oh wait, yes, I have had a pastor do that. Totally humiliating, nobody. Yeah, that's a whole nother story.
Kathleen Irey (01:05:50.238)
If he hasn't given that speech from the pulpit that you know it's about you, are you even living a life, guys?
Kathleen Irey (01:06:00.574)
I had to restrain myself from going up onto the pulpit. So no, having an honest conversation. Like, bro, like I was literally gonna be like, does this really feel like the appropriate conversation to be having right now? Like, this is what the church wants. You're clearly not wanting this. You know it's coming from the women of the church. That's why you're saying this. Like, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:06:06.301)
and throat punching him, yeah. Oh, I would have.
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:06:17.585)
Yeah, passive aggressive much?
Melissa Lapin (01:06:27.825)
Yeah, just call any money shit. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:06:30.142)
Yeah, I did it later, but whatever. Anyway, long story short, and he had done this so many times. He was an older pastor. I loved him to death. I still do to this day. He's a great pastor. And he had never been able to get past this point. He needed to do some healing. And I was ready to do that with him. And he wouldn't go there. So that was one of those. And I was like, wait, what? It was like one of my first experiences with.
Melissa Lapin (01:06:45.897)
Mm.
Melissa Lapin (01:06:51.935)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:07:00.01)
We can not go there. We can go the other direction and still be a pastor.
Melissa Lapin (01:07:02.509)
Yeah. So what? You mean I don't have to argue?
Kathleen Irey (01:07:09.711)
I know, right? I was just like, okay.
Melissa Lapin (01:07:10.653)
I mean, I can walk away with my mouth closed. Yeah, that's a hard lesson I've had to learn too. It's like, I don't have to leave them with the last word, even though I'm right.
Kathleen Irey (01:07:24.554)
Oh yeah, no, I don't have to, I don't.
Kathleen Irey (01:07:30.206)
have to have the last word of him arguing with somebody but I might have to have the last word with my husband. So, um, just saying. I rarely get it because he's more stubborn than I am, but I would like to say. Um, no, so this whole long journey he sent me on, he sent me to a whole nother church, he sent me to a whole different group of men to talk to, he sent me, um, and all the while, uh.
Melissa Lapin (01:07:39.797)
That's funny.
Kathleen Irey (01:08:01.046)
I just got my ass kicked. So, no, I was not. Yeah, this is right before KLM. So I, I don't know. Again, things that I grew up learning, which is you didn't show how smart you were as a woman because you would be attacked. So I always play dumb. I'm always, you know?
Melissa Lapin (01:08:03.537)
Were you doing KLM at this time? Oh, OK. This was before KLM. OK.
Melissa Lapin (01:08:22.535)
Mm.
Melissa Lapin (01:08:25.601)
Cause you're gonna be a Jezebel.
Kathleen Irey (01:08:30.162)
I would love to be called that someday because I've never had that experience. Ever. Just so you know. Like, really, I've never nobody's ever called me that. No, it wasn't from. No, no.
Melissa Lapin (01:08:36.394)
Like, like really? Or you're, really? Oh man, I thought you were just being a smart ass.
Kathleen Irey (01:08:45.038)
No, I was like, and everybody's like, I haven't called it just about and I'm like, I haven't. I'm not cool people apparently. Um, again, why not experience it guys?
Melissa Lapin (01:08:53.817)
Wow, I'm shocked. I'm shocked on my own podcast.
Kathleen Irey (01:08:59.47)
Are you really? I am sorry. Nobody has ever thought to call me that.
Melissa Lapin (01:09:05.897)
Good for you. It's not fun. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:09:11.282)
I mean, they've pretty much said it without saying the name. But I have a feeling so. And at the time, it was just. A lot of experiences, unfortunately, with Christian men who held positions of power that pulled some power moves and just through this whole process, it was extremely painful. And God was like, hey, you can't play stupid anymore.
you got to start being you. And I was like, oh, OK. Like, I can handle that they were dicks because I had, you know, I was like, I needed to get to that point, whatever. And the problem was it kept going. And after I was like, but I learned the lesson. And I was like, now they're just being dicks. And I was like, why aren't we smiting these people? I was like, I feel like. I feel like I'm ready for it. And so just learning.
Melissa Lapin (01:09:41.77)
Mmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:10:12.662)
My mom laughs too at me when I say that. She's like, what if somebody said that about you? I was like, maybe I deserve it. I'm OK.
Melissa Lapin (01:10:14.177)
I'm sorry.
Melissa Lapin (01:10:18.005)
Right?
Sons of thunder. Want me to call out lightning on them guys?
Kathleen Irey (01:10:26.667)
I'm just saying.
Melissa Lapin (01:10:29.182)
Where's the show?
Kathleen Irey (01:10:29.694)
in mind it sometimes. It was just it was just a whole process I had to go through. And that's what I mean by literally the hardest time ever. I have this book. I haven't been able to get out of Chapter two, Uprooting Anger. No. Yeah, it might have been that one. I don't there was another one. I haven't been able to get out of Chapter two because it like hits right nail on the head. And I was like, no, we're not doing that. And which, yes, is not irony because I just told the pastor.
Melissa Lapin (01:10:43.321)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:10:57.774)
who decided not to do that and then here I was not doing it anyway. I'm aware. OK.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:03.709)
We all got our thing we're avoiding!
Kathleen Irey (01:11:07.538)
I'm aware that when I call it out in other people, I'm generally doing it myself, okay? That's just how it is. And...
Melissa Lapin (01:11:13.778)
Right? We all do.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:18.033)
I know you are, but what am I?
Kathleen Irey (01:11:20.422)
It was a really rough journey. It was a really lonely journey. It was a really it put a really big hole in mine and God's relationship. So I really didn't talk to God for about two more years after that. Now, I could still see where the Holy Spirit was working. We can call it God, but I call it Holy Spirit because it was Holy Spirit moments like I can tell the difference between them.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:25.93)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:34.805)
Hmm.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:50.517)
Right?
Kathleen Irey (01:11:50.582)
But and I might still also just refuse to acknowledge it was God, guys. It's OK. So it was just a lot of like self growth. And in that it's an extremely painful process. I wish I could say it's not that bad. And I would be lying. It was pretty shitty. And I got really mad at God and I quit talking to him. So I would still listen to Holy Spirit. I was still talk to Holy Spirit, believe or not.
Melissa Lapin (01:11:56.373)
Okay.
Kathleen Irey (01:12:17.494)
People would still show up at my house. I would still be feeding them Jesus and I would still be like, he is great. But as far as my personal relationship, spending any intimate time with him, that was, we were done. And I told him that. And I was like, I'm done with you. And it was, what was it?
Melissa Lapin (01:12:31.688)
Mm.
Kathleen Irey (01:12:39.37)
Oh, he sent me to a new church. And in this new church, I'm here more to teach and not always necessarily get fed. OK. And I was like, well, I need a community around me. Like I miss my community of women and I just need a community. And I kept saying that. And he was like, well, I need you to do this. And I said, well, I'm not doing that until I get this. A lot of ultimatums, right? Sorry, guys, I was mad. I don't know what you want from me.
Melissa Lapin (01:13:06.914)
We all do it. We absolutely all do it by.
Kathleen Irey (01:13:11.134)
I just wish I could say it was, it was literally, it was two years. I don't, I don't think we had talked.
Melissa Lapin (01:13:15.529)
Yeah. Well, some people have done it their whole lives. Something happened and something didn't go their way and they get pissed off at God. And 50 years later, they're still angry at God.
Kathleen Irey (01:13:21.386)
Hmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:13:28.95)
Yeah, oh yeah. I mean, and through this whole process, he was bringing me, I actually, I just showed this to the girl who was at my house for seven hours. I have a hole in the wall in my prayer closet. No, it's actually, it's over there.
Melissa Lapin (01:13:41.705)
behind you? No.
Kathleen Irey (01:13:49.086)
in my prayer closet where God and I had it out and I was fucking living. And with what he was calling me to do, with what he needed me to do, and I told him he was a sick guy who created women just to be demeaned by men. Then I was just, let him have it. And I was like, I told him straight up I wasn't doing it. And I was just like really angry. And I was like, I'm not doing that. And I was like, oh, I put a hole in the wall, not realizing it.
Melissa Lapin (01:14:08.732)
Okay.
Kathleen Irey (01:14:18.378)
And my husband was like, we need to fix that. And I was like, no, I like that hole. I was like, I like that hole in the wall. This was the moment God and I had. And he was like, it's just a hole in the wall, Katie. There we go. That is what I do. I will do that, actually. I'm going to get a picture frame. I'm going to figure out what size. But so a lot of like moments like that until I would.
Melissa Lapin (01:14:21.857)
Do we though? Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:14:29.225)
You need to just put a picture frame around it. Do what they do, like put a picture frame around it. Yeah.
Yeah, just.
Kathleen Irey (01:14:44.614)
surrender. There were a lot of moments of him being this really great loving God until I pushed too far. And then I got that big booming voice a couple of times and I was like, oh, okay. That's the boundary. Like, okay. But, um.
Melissa Lapin (01:14:51.979)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:14:58.684)
So that's the boundary, okay. Let me go push over here.
Kathleen Irey (01:15:06.666)
like in true toddler form, I would turn and be like, okay, well then we're gonna fight about this over here. And so it was just this big long journey and he finally like very audibly was like, listen, you've had your time. We need to get back to this work that I talked about. And I said, fine, then you need to send me a community of people. And at this time I was, I had my Bible open, which I don't.
Melissa Lapin (01:15:11.899)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:15:35.566)
that I had opened outside of using it for church in a couple years and I was reading scripture and this is what he was telling me while we're having this conversation and I and I was like literally it was my toddler tantrum and I was like listen well I need a community of women behind me I'm not doing it by myself anymore and I'm not doing it with just you because you may have told him he was a joke so um
might have still been a little angry guys. And he said, okay, cool, I have community for you. So I said, okay, I shut my Bible. And I was like, I don't, like you're full of it, right? Like you say all this stuff, but you never mean it. You never deliver, whatever. So I, again, in true child form, decide to ignore him and get on Facebook.
because what else are you gonna do with your time when you're ignoring God? Let's scroll some Facebook, guys. And shh, shit. There was Justin Ferenbrook, who I had spoken to in over a decade, but we were Facebook friends from when we worked together, however long ago. And I've been having fun watching his journey as he started to become a Christian and just watching all his little baby Christian stuff and then as he grew and stuff. And...
I was like, well, good for him. And I knew Candace and whatever. So, but again, hadn't actually spoken to the guy. And I don't know, I think it was like 14 years at that point. And he was interviewing this girl with bright pink hair, named Angel. And I don't even remember what the interview was, but it was actually pretty cool. I was actually like, hmm, that's different. And literally God said, there's your community. Go to her page.
Melissa Lapin (01:17:17.192)
Hehehehe
Kathleen Irey (01:17:29.706)
insure stuff, there was like a thing to fill out at her page. And I was like, I don't want to do this. This is weird. I don't know this girl. And I filled it out. And I was like, well, if she doesn't call me by tomorrow, then if she does call, I'm not answering. She didn't call me. And I was like, OK, I like it, breathe the sigh of relief.
Melissa Lapin (01:17:45.96)
Ha!
Melissa Lapin (01:17:50.105)
I did my part, God. I... If she ain't listening to you and call me, then I can't do anything about that.
Kathleen Irey (01:18:00.066)
kidding you guys. This is how sad it was. Okay. Um, and yeah, so she called me I think the next day and we started talking and it was a few months after that I joined KLM. So it was definitely um,
Really, it's been a rough-
How old am I? It's been a rough eight years, guys. Stepping into your true identity is because you have to, it is, it's not for the weak. It is, you have to want it and you have to survive it.
Melissa Lapin (01:18:35.677)
It's not for sissies.
Melissa Lapin (01:18:49.206)
You have to stop self sabotaging. You have to surrender. You have to stop throwing tantrums. Yeah, probably me too. Yes, I call it calm spiritual hissy fits.
Kathleen Irey (01:18:51.987)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:18:55.894)
It's really, I don't know what you're talking about. I will throw tantrums till I die.
Let's be real. I call it being passionate. I'm just a passionate person. I'm just passionate. Leave.
Melissa Lapin (01:19:09.377)
I'm just passionate. And I can hear God, okay, that's what we're calling it now. Okay. Okay, Katie. Right?
Kathleen Irey (01:19:19.762)
You can make it pretty all you want. It doesn't change the fact. And so through Angel and KLM, I did a lot of. Who a lot of heart healing, a lot of it was a 12 week boot camp.
Melissa Lapin (01:19:26.314)
Ahem.
Kathleen Irey (01:19:39.31)
fucking nightmare of going into all of this deep stuff, really going back to the root of it and really learning how to heal it. And then realizing how much was rooted so much back into my childhood of things I needed healed. So I didn't have the reaction mostly in my life to my husband.
Melissa Lapin (01:20:05.054)
Mm-hmm.
Kathleen Irey (01:20:11.395)
That was really just little eight year old Katie who had been hurt too many times. And now here my husband is getting the brunt force of that because I'm 37 and can stand up for myself, you know? And so it was a process. It was not a free process. So it was the first time I had to what I call like pay for Jesus, which I didn't agree with and neither did my husband.
Melissa Lapin (01:20:17.983)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:20:39.398)
Um, but I actually seriously looked at our budget, which I handle and I was like, okay, well we can afford it. And so God actually, my husband and I separated for a couple of weeks. At this time we were fighting a lot because I wasn't in the best place guys. And apparently I was taking out a lot of my childhood trouble on him.
Melissa Lapin (01:20:46.985)
Ha ha
Melissa Lapin (01:20:59.713)
Ha ha ha!
Melissa Lapin (01:21:04.425)
Hehehehehehe
Kathleen Irey (01:21:05.674)
which I would soon find out. And we had separated for a couple of weeks. And in that, I was like, God was like, okay, I removed him now because he was not for paying for stuff. He does not agree with that. And so I signed up and it was seriously, it was the long process of the first step I took and what I call showing up for myself.
And so, which is, by the way, circling back to what we originally started talking about.
Melissa Lapin (01:21:39.755)
Ha ha!
Kathleen Irey (01:21:43.314)
Which for me, believe it or not, was the money. The money was the biggest thing for me, was dedicating $200 of our budget a month on strictly something that was just for me, was not anything I had ever done. I just, that's just not who I was. I had a kid at 19. It's never like I was super flush with cash when you start backwards, you know.
Melissa Lapin (01:22:12.329)
Right.
Kathleen Irey (01:22:13.106)
Like we were in small apartments and stuff like that until we got the house. And because you're, you have the child. So you don't have a lot of free income at that point.
Kathleen Irey (01:22:27.741)
And take another drink.
Kathleen Irey (01:22:33.99)
And so financially we were in a position where we could do it. I just didn't know if I could actually do that for myself. And so that first, that was my first step of it. And then it was another what year, year and a half long journey of doing these classes. And it was kind of more of like a 12 week boot camp with the first eight weeks of KLM. And
Melissa Lapin (01:23:00.569)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:23:03.326)
I needed a break after that and I kind of like half watched my rest of them and then I really cranked it out at the end and I still just remember one, it's so important to be in community even if it's a freaking therapist or other people around you because when you're on this particular part of the journey, you can't do it alone. I was like, you just, you can't because that big wound.
Melissa Lapin (01:23:26.034)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:23:31.778)
that you think is, you know, like your entire throat cut is really just like a little scratch. But to you, you're like, well, I can't we don't want to look at that. Right. And no, it turns out it's not that big, but it seems scary and big before you can go in and heal it and you just won't. You'll avoid it. But when you surround yourself with people who don't let you avoid things.
Melissa Lapin (01:23:51.786)
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (01:23:57.748)
Like the first time we met.
Kathleen Irey (01:24:01.413)
That was another one. I know I know
Melissa Lapin (01:24:04.33)
Ahem.
That's awesome. And it is.
Kathleen Irey (01:24:07.094)
Yeah, that was definitely, I mean, it's just, yeah. It was, and that's where I learned to show up for myself. That's what that one was. Step out, do something. I traveled to Texas, which again, was just something for me. It was a girls weekend. I completed the courses, which was a goal I set for just myself. Nothing that benefited my family. It was just something I wanted to do to personally grow me.
my career kind of a thing, my next step. It wasn't something that I could justify because I may be taking this step, but it'll benefit the family, you know what I mean? So this was really truly something that I just did for me.
Melissa Lapin (01:24:56.937)
Just quote selfish. Yeah. I mean, it's not selfish, but we think, we label it as selfish, especially as women. We get lost in the identity of mom and wife. And I mean, I can't tell you the number of women that I counsel that just, they have no, yeah, but.
Kathleen Irey (01:25:00.062)
I mean, yup, you know me.
Kathleen Irey (01:25:06.762)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:25:20.846)
I mean, I was happy to.
Melissa Lapin (01:25:25.201)
we also have our own identity, we have our own hearts, we have our own dreams, our own desires, and you know that's why a lot of women like crash and burn and have affairs and do all kinds of stupid shit when their kids graduate high school and leave because they've spent 18 years with the identity of being a mom.
Kathleen Irey (01:25:51.22)
And yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:25:52.293)
and totally neglected themselves. And then they wonder why their marriage fell apart or they had the affair or they start drinking or whatever. Yeah, any of them. Yeah, yeah, just anything to fill that hole that has been growing for 18 years. There is any listener out there, there's room for both.
Kathleen Irey (01:26:04.272)
any of it. The shopping addiction.
Kathleen Irey (01:26:15.498)
Yeah. And that was, I mean...
Melissa Lapin (01:26:21.417)
You can have your identity as a woman and your dreams, and you can work toward the things and still be a good mom and a good wife. There is room for it. It takes effort, but it can be done. You know, you might not be able to start that business right away, but you can take... No, so I'm saying, I mean, what you...
Kathleen Irey (01:26:40.738)
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:26:45.695)
I was like, maybe not all at the same time, but you can have both of them.
Melissa Lapin (01:26:51.317)
Bro, we throw out the Proverbs 31 woman crap like she did everything all at one time. You cannot plant and plow and sow and dry and go to the market all the freaking same day, you know? And we're, I, oh my god, I hate that scripture so much. I'm gonna make a whole podcast on how much I hate the Proverbs 31 because it, oh, it puts women in such bondage.
Kathleen Irey (01:27:05.163)
Right?
Kathleen Irey (01:27:12.942)
Can we?
You know? Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:27:21.257)
because we think we have to do all of these things. So I'm not called to do those things, you know?
Kathleen Irey (01:27:21.29)
Yeah. Duh.
Kathleen Irey (01:27:28.003)
Whoa!
Kathleen Irey (01:27:31.666)
I will say there, at least in my story, there were definitely a couple instances where I put myself into some therapy because remember I gave everything up at 18 to be a mother. All of my hopes and dreams that I had been dying to get to, I had to give up to be a mom, especially mom at 19.
Melissa Lapin (01:27:42.686)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:27:51.125)
But see, the perspective that we should have had was like what your sister said. You don't have to give them up, they're just delayed. You know, but we, what, yeah, just different for now. You know, those dreams of, you know, whatever, if you wanna be in Cirque du Soleil, okay, so you have a kid and you work to it after that.
Kathleen Irey (01:28:01.61)
Yeah, your life is not over, it's just a different life. Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:28:13.998)
And... Right.
And I was okay with that because that's what my mother did. So I had that like role model. My mom was a stay-at-home mom until I went to kindergarten. And when I went to kindergarten, she went back, got her bachelor's degree, went to medical school and became a doctor, right? But she didn't do that until her 40s, 30, 40s. So, you know, because she was a mom first for however long and yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:28:25.225)
role model kind of thing. Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:28:34.801)
Yeah. Well, there you go.
Yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:28:48.266)
So to me, I was like, I was okay giving it up at that age, but I did do some therapy work to ensure I didn't resent this child I was gonna be bringing into the world. And I just needed it at that time and a couple other times we did it, but yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:28:56.55)
Yeah, for sure.
Melissa Lapin (01:29:08.889)
Oh, you're so funny. There's never just one with you, Katie.
Kathleen Irey (01:29:10.935)
I just...
Kathleen Irey (01:29:16.553)
Never. Nope. I can tell you a couple different. We even had a therapist when we were young. My husband and I.
Melissa Lapin (01:29:24.217)
You probably needed it with, oh, together when you first got married or first got together.
Kathleen Irey (01:29:27.69)
Oh, now the therapist, believe it or not, I did have a therapist when I was young. See, I'm telling you guys, they was court mandated through the divorce.
Melissa Lapin (01:29:35.223)
Yeah, yeah, but I bet it helped you more than you think.
Kathleen Irey (01:29:37.906)
No, we played games because she said, do you know why your parents are getting divorced? And I was like, my mom needs to move to Michigan to go to medical school and my dad doesn't like Michigan.
Kathleen Irey (01:29:50.098)
I was like, okay. She was like, okay. So after a while we just would play games. That's all I remember of therapy. I don't know. I just, I was not as, I was just more pissed I couldn't live with both my parents. Like that's, but to me I was like, well this logically makes sense. No, it's weird.
Melissa Lapin (01:29:50.156)
And what did she do with that?
Melissa Lapin (01:30:01.478)
Interesting.
Melissa Lapin (01:30:07.274)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:30:10.621)
Yeah. Oh my god. This is totally random, but freaking hysterical and I have to share it.
Melissa Lapin (01:30:20.737)
I don't even fucking get it out. Okay, so Annalise is 10, right? Granddaughter, for those of you listening, my granddaughter, she's freaking witty. Oh my gosh, she's hilarious. So hilarious. So I guess last week, OJ Simpson died, right? Okay, so I'm sitting in the kitchen with Annalise and we're doing a craft project, like we always do, making some kind of art something. And Scott's like, Hey, do you know OJ Simpson died?
Kathleen Irey (01:30:25.598)
Okay.
Kathleen Irey (01:30:35.639)
I love that.
Mm-hmm.
Melissa Lapin (01:30:50.513)
And I went, no, and Annalise is like, who's that? And I go, well, back in the day, he was a football player, really good football player. And then he killed his wife. And Scott goes, well, that was his ex-wife. And immediately she goes, oh, well, that's understandable.
Melissa Lapin (01:31:17.646)
Because it was an ex-wife, it made it okay to kill her? Like, you demented little gen-z-er. I mean, like, sorry, it was hilarious. I mean, that's total random. But it was like, it was just ex. Well, she goes, well, murder's not really good though, is it? Like, no.
Kathleen Irey (01:31:23.621)
What?
Kathleen Irey (01:31:29.582)
Well, you're right.
That is, yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:31:42.401)
That's hilarious.
Kathleen Irey (01:31:43.49)
Good to see your parting wisdom to the next generation, Melissa.
Melissa Lapin (01:31:49.226)
Doing my best.
Kathleen Irey (01:31:54.03)
Grandma said it was okay, as long as it's an ex, you can murder them. Gosh, that really is the Gen Z mindset though. They should just die then. I'm like, oh no, what are we getting ready for guys? Ugh.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:02.691)
Yeah. Right?
Melissa Lapin (01:32:07.841)
Yeah, that's the ultimate canceling of someone. We're gonna unalive you.
Kathleen Irey (01:32:12.45)
That's another ability. I was like, that let's another Hitler in guys. Come on. Because they'd all be like, yeah, or, you know, another Pontius Pilate. Yeah, I think we should crucify him. Let's crucify Jesus. Give us the murderer.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:20.225)
on the on bus.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:24.769)
Do it! Just do it! He's not so bad.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:37.405)
He only killed one people.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:43.334)
Oh, we should probably land this plane. Mainly because I have to go to the bathroom.
Kathleen Irey (01:32:44.508)
Oh no. I kind of love it.
Kathleen Irey (01:32:49.546)
Never.
Kathleen Irey (01:32:53.762)
You did drink too much butter today.
Melissa Lapin (01:32:55.637)
Bro, I drank this whole thing. I gotta go to the bathroom so bad.
Kathleen Irey (01:32:58.828)
Okay, no offense, this is like my second one and I'm ready for a third.
Melissa Lapin (01:33:03.71)
Ooh, waterholic.
Kathleen Irey (01:33:05.31)
I drink water. Yes, I really do. I have a water problem. Like, I really do.
I love me some water.
Melissa Lapin (01:33:13.661)
I think you're addicted to the chlorine in it.
Kathleen Irey (01:33:18.604)
Okay.
Melissa Lapin (01:33:22.777)
see you're just like okay we're just that's what we're doing now you're so funny so all right so i think we'll end with show up for yourself people regardless of the work it takes if it's a money thing find the money find the money
Kathleen Irey (01:33:25.194)
Sure, I like this. Yeah, all right.
I am Mika.
Kathleen Irey (01:33:37.646)
show up for yourself.
Kathleen Irey (01:33:45.622)
Or I even say, or if you're struggling with something that. Yeah, yeah, seriously, do it. Because I've gotten so many answers that if I had done that and shown up for myself, I'd still be pissed at God. I'd be one of those probably bitter, older women who would tell people that God was a joke and they should just save their time. Because I was that angry. So.
Melissa Lapin (01:33:57.845)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:34:06.066)
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:34:09.581)
Yeah. I think a lot of us are and we don't and the community aspect like you were talking about, we don't have the community because if we say something or like, we just need to pray or you just need to have more faith or I'm like, fuck you, I'm angry.
Kathleen Irey (01:34:19.502)
Thanks for watching!
He will never leave you. He will never leave you nor forsake you.
Melissa Lapin (01:34:27.721)
I'm like, well, he needs to do something, right? So, but yeah, so just so you know, there's no judgment coming from us. So if anybody listening, I actually have, we do, yes, we judge each other really awesomely. We're good at it. We've perfected our judgments. But yeah.
Kathleen Irey (01:34:29.322)
Well, I don't really feel him right now.
Kathleen Irey (01:34:42.73)
We only judge each other.
Kathleen Irey (01:34:53.937)
kid.
Melissa Lapin (01:34:54.841)
I have an online community now that I've started at AfterTheWell.org and you can go on and there's kind of a little chat area where you can introduce yourself and we're trying to make it look all pretty. I don't know what it kind of looks like now. I mean, I do know what it looks like in its plain, but I don't know. I mean, it's not like a Facebook kind of thing, but it is just a place where we can chat and I've started two threads. One where you can introduce yourself in one.
where you can throw out some questions and want to talk and stuff. But that's at after the world.org under con contents or connect. No, it's under connect. It's under the connect window or button down button thing, whatever you call it.
Kathleen Irey (01:35:41.634)
That's so fancy.
Melissa Lapin (01:35:43.561)
I will be starting March, starting May 1st. There's some cool things gonna be dropping for being able to connect, which I'm not sure this will air before May 1st. So, which is next week. So.
Kathleen Irey (01:35:58.455)
Oh.
Melissa Lapin (01:36:01.99)
Delete everything just ignore. Well, actually, you could be listening to this and not know about it. So as of May 1st, there, it's already been out since May 1st.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:07.382)
is true. There we go.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:11.662)
You
Melissa Lapin (01:36:14.121)
Yeah, I said that backwards. Yeah, pardon me. Okay, Scott. I did. As of May 1st, it has been put out. So yeah. Thanks for being on, Katie.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:16.47)
Yeah, exactly. You misspoke.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:24.094)
That's funny. I love it.
Yeah.
Melissa Lapin (01:36:29.873)
or Kathleen, which we didn't even get to the Katie Kathleen thing. We can do that a whole nother episode too. Yeah. So, all right. Thank you. Right. Yeah. I changed my name a few years ago, 25 years ago at this point. Went through that. With that you're a late bloomer, but it's okay. You probably weren't even alive when I did it. I'm like way older than you.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:32.184)
Whatever.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:36.392)
It's true.
All part of that fun journey.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:50.254)
Let's say that's.
Kathleen Irey (01:36:54.73)
Aren't you like, I was like, um, you're only what, 10 years, 10, 20? No, how much older than me?
Melissa Lapin (01:37:03.544)
So I just turned 54.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:06.762)
I'm 37, so you're almost 20 years older than me. Oh.
Melissa Lapin (01:37:09.133)
I know. I'm old. I could be your mom.
Technically. So were you.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:15.426)
You'd be a pretty young mom, but yeah. Psss. I looked good.
Melissa Lapin (01:37:23.189)
Pretty sure you still look good. So anyway, all right. I wanna say thanks for everybody who's listening. I know this is really crazy. We're crazy and we love it. We wouldn't change anything about ourselves even though we are. But, have.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:29.416)
I agree.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:36.987)
No.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:41.034)
Even though I just told an hour and a half long story of how I changed everything.
Melissa Lapin (01:37:43.973)
of how I changed.
Melissa Lapin (01:37:50.082)
Oh my god, that's hilarious.
Kathleen Irey (01:37:52.15)
It's how you get to this point though of being like, I am who I am, take me or leave me, but I'm not changing. Oh yeah, sure. I'm still learning and growing.
Melissa Lapin (01:37:57.182)
Yup.
I'm still growing. Yeah, but we're still we are changing. We're still growing. Yeah, you are Yay So if you have any questions about anything we talked about um Hit us up in the show comments. Uh, hit me up at you can send me email at melissa at after the wall.org um facebook's instagram Both are after dot the well um
Kathleen Irey (01:38:17.282)
I can't see.
Melissa Lapin (01:38:29.469)
Yeah, there's plenty of ways connect. So appreciate you listening and thanks Katie, Kathleen, for being on. It was awesome and fun.
Kathleen Irey (01:38:40.406)
Hey, thanks for having me. Who knows, maybe we'll learn to regret that. You never know.
Melissa Lapin (01:38:42.589)
Yeah, and we'll.
Melissa Lapin (01:38:48.39)
I regret nothing. If I'm going to do it, I'm going to own it. So, all right, my friend, I will talk to you later. All right. Bye.
Kathleen Irey (01:38:55.982)
That's truth right there.
Kathleen Irey (01:39:04.106)
Yeah. Keep running.